Need new boiler, BritGas man tells me its not possible HELP!

[Jazzy]

Hello once again,
I have posted a topic about my Myson Apollo 30/50 on the blink. I think it's time to replace the boiler to avoid the annual few days without heating/hot water.
This time last year I had a chap round from British Gas to give me a free quote on replacing my boiler. He came in, took one look at my boiler and the flue system and told me - you won't get a new boiler to replace that one, you'll be better off replacing it with an electric heater and replacing all of your radiators with electric heaters.... This all struck me as rather extreme and being the slight pessimist that I am, I presumed he might have been looking for a nice big juicy commision on such a big job.
I shall explain to you the boiler and system that I have and maybe you can tell me what you think......
OK, it's a myson apollo 30/50 boiler, which heats water for my central heating and hot water - I do have an elson storage tank just below my water tanks and I presume this is what's used to hold and store the hot water.?? The big problem seems to be this - I live in a flat which is situated in a listed building. The flue for my boiler is a shared flue with other flats in my block, the flue runs through the middle of the block in between very thick brick walls(the building was put up in the 1740's and the walls are very, very thick) - The flue then goes out of some kind of chimney on top of the roof - I am led to believe that there may be some doors at ground level that have wooden slats in them in order top create a draught at ground level to take the fumes up and out of the roof, but I can't be sure if this is how it works. If my memory serves me well, the British Gas chap told me it was a 'C duct' or 'see duct' system, or something like that anyway and he told me that no boiler companies make boilers that work in this environment any longer and that my only hope was to find a second hand one, or replace the whole gas system with an electric one.
Obviously I don't want to have to go to the lengths of changing my entire system. Can anyone here shed any light on what kind of flue system I have and if it's possible to fit a new style boiler into this system - I must stress that as it's a listed building it's illegal for me to put an external flue on the wall so I have to use this shared flue. Surely this is not an uncommon problem, especially in blocks of flats?? Surely there must be some other solution? I should add that I don't plan to live in these flats for much longer than a year or 2, therefore a complete refit probably wouldn't make economic sense.
HELP!!!

 

[breezer]

i have no idea what so ever, but i would suggest you get several quotes / opinions

 

[ricarbo]

The problem is that most modern boilers draw in air at the same point they emit it. Your existing discharge point is full of exhaust from other peoples boilers, if you are sharing a common exhaust flue, so you can't draw fresh air in from it to supply the boiler with something it can use.
You'd need to draw air in from a suitable point outside the building. Just because it's a listed building doesn't mean you can't do that, but it does mean you need consent for alterations to the external appearance in most (all?)circumstances. Therefore, you need to speak to the local planners to find out what they will allow. I don't think you will find they think their purpose in life is to stop you having gas central heating.
Not all modern boilers have to terminate with a flue which consists of a pipe/s poking out the wall horizontally. for example Glowworm make an anti pluming kit for their range of condensing boilers which means you wind up with something that looks like a rainwater pipe. going up to eaves level. So do Keston. Have a look at their websites.
Vertical flues are also possible from boilers so it may be possible for yours to go straight up to the roof if there is a route that doesn't breach somebody else's property rights.

 

[bripl]

check out the web just found 3 manufacturers that do a se duct flue for boilers two poor makes and one reasonable hope this helps

 

[Jazzy]

check out the web just found 3 manufacturers that do a se duct flue for boilers two poor makes and one reasonable hope this helps

Thanks for your investigation, Bripl - Can you point me in the direction of these websites please old horse - Also, do you(or anyone else) know how easy it is to replace an old Myson Apollo with a new fangled SE-duct boiler? Not that I'm planning to do it myself of course, just curious about how much of a pain in the ar*e it might be....
Cheers for all help/advice from everyone on this - Feel free to keep the advice coming!

 

[bripl]

do not know how current these are but try
ferrolli
chaffoteaux
valliant

 

[chrishutt]

SE ducts are still being installed! So there must be a reasonable selection of appliances with suitable flues. I don't think the flue and air duct arrangement is all that different to normal fanned ones. The combustion products already in the SE duct should be sufficiently diluted with air to make it safe to draw combustion air from the duct.

Complain to BG about the misleading and ill-informed advice you were given. There's no excuse for such incompetence, even if it is a free survey.

 

[Agile]

A modern premix condensing boiler required the combustion air to be pure.

If there is a significant reduction of the 20.9 % of oxygen then the boiler will fail to work properly and could even become dangerous.

Perhaps theres a dispensation to allow non condensing to be used with a C-duct or perhaps there are hybrid types available with conventional burners which are more tolerant ( but less efficient, usually Band B ).

Tony Glazier