neighbour has built on party wall...

[p3dro]

Hello all,
My neighbour is having a loft extension built. Our lofts used to be divided by a plywood wall.
The previous owner of my house had to attach (to my face of the plywood party wall) fireproof plasterboard for the sale to go through.
Now the neighbours builders have taken down the plywood only and built a block wall in its place (I think it's only 1 skin that I can see)
They have placed 3 steel beams in these walls (one at each end and one ridge beam) and put them slightly through my plasterboard, having cut out squares for them to fit through. The builder said this was only so he could manoeuvre the beams in but my concern is that the beams are over the entire party wall, ie, shouldnt they be on only the neighbours half?
Does anyone know if that is going to be a problem for me?
What if I want to extend my loft, their beams will be in the way of mine?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
I should add that 2 weeks before the work started I was given a party wall notice which i signed and returned but no schedule of condition was carried out.
Thanks
P

 

[TrevP]

Hi,

I suggest that you give your local council planning department a call and have a chat with the inspector who is signing off the work. Clearly the builder will have to meet building regs and the inspector is the best person to give you information.
However, the steels will need to sit fully on the wall to give them the necessary support to bear the load on them.

 

[p3dro]

Right, thanks TrevP.
I hadn't thought of calling Building Control yet.
From what you say, there is no issue with their beams sitting on the entire thickness of the party wall?
Are they under any obligation to make this new party wall they have built look "neat" on my side? Or can they just leave all the mortar with its drips hanging down and expanding foam around the beams??
P

 

[Nakajo]

2 weeks before the work started was when you should have got on DIYnot!

 

[p3dro]

Hah! Thanks Captain Hindsight!
In seriousness though, at that point I could only have 1) stopped the work commencing by not replying to the letter, 2) stopped the work commencing by insisting on a Party Wall Agreement and/or Schedule of condition or 3) did what I did, which was agree to the notice in good faith and keep an eye on the build in case the builders do anything wrong....
I still think I took the most sensible action on balance at the time, but I'm concerned now that the builders have done something naughty with the beams / party wall....but have they is the real question?!?

 

[Nakajo]

We would have insisted on a photo survey. But it sounds like your on good terms with your neighbour. The builder of course has to put things back to your satisfaction, and at their (or your neighbour's) expense.

 

[p3dro]

Yeah, we are on good terms I would say...if we weren't I would definitely have stopped everything and thrown the book at them when they served the (already very late) notice!
So I can insist the builders tidy up the messy wall....but to not be a complete git about it, the fireproof pb is / was a really poor and messy example so in a way I already have an improvement by way of blockwork... Albeit in need of a finish.
I think I'm more concerned with the legality of the beams taking the entire depth of the party wall, and how it affects me if I want to convert the loft...eg; where will my ridge beam sit?! Will I lose out because their steels are in place?
P

 

[tony1851]

In terms of a future loft conversion, you wouldn't necessarily 'loose out' because of their protruding ridge beam -
there are always ways around that.
It's unlikely the existing party wall will have been overloaded by the steel beams - the loads involved will not
be particularly high.

 

[p3dro]

Thanks Tony.
Good to know there are ways around it...so long as those ways don't involve me having to pay extra for some special solution or lose space because my beams have to move a foot or two this way or that because they have done something they shouldn’t have!
...on that actually, is it usual to have the beam on both halves of the party wall or should it only be on theirs??
P

 

[tony1851]

Usually, the party wall is one-brick (225mm) thick, and the beam rests on the neighbours half (ie 112 bearing).
But if your wall has been built up in blockwork, it is possible it is only 100mm thick - is that the case? If so, the beams
would have to rest on the full thickness for stability.
But however it's been done, there are always ways of acommodating these problems.

 

[Doggit]

Can we go over that again Tony. 225 is a single skin wall that's 2 bricks thick. What was the original partywall constructed off. Single skin double thick. Single skin cavity etc etc. Have they put up a single skin of blockwork, or a double. Is there a padstone or engineering brick under the steel, and have they used aereated blocks, or concrete blocks.

How old is the house, and was it an old terraced house with an open loft system, and someones used the plywood for privacy. If they've taken down the plywood,and left the pasterboard in place, how can you see the state of the blockwork thats been put up. If the blockworks messy, then they should tidy it up as a matter r courtesy.

If you were to do your own loft conversion, your floor support beams should sit on the original part wall, so it's only you're ridge beam steel that would be an issue. If the part wall were of sufficient strength to take both beams, then you've very likely just bolt you're ridge beam on to you're neighbours - assuming there's enough of it to get to.

 

[tony1851]

@ Doggit; in brickwork terminology, a one-brick wall is 225 thick.

 

[p3dro]

Thanks Tony & doggit.
In answer to your questions / points;

I cannot see the thickness or construction type of the party wall as the builders have blocked up all along it unfortunately.
However they have used 100mm thick blocks so I assume your point is correct Tony, that the party wall was only ever 100mm thick , otherwise why would they have done that!?
Doggit, It looks like they've used a padstone to my untrained eyes (and googling images of them and engineering bricks) and concrete blocks (can't see any squiggles on the blocks)
The houses are roughly 1906 and terraced with open lofts that plywood was used for privacy. They cut holes in my pb to push the beams through which is how I can see through and that its 1 skin theyve put up and under one eaves they totally pulled down my pb to put up their block wall, which is how I can see the finish on my side is messy...

Would I need to cut a hole in their blocks to insert my padstone and beam if I converted?
Their ridge beam is overhanging the block wall into my side by maybe 10mm...could I bolt to that or am I scuppered!?
Thanks again,
P

 

[Doggit]

Sorry Tony, I possibly shouldn't have been picky, but at times we need to be more exact as we're not on site, so I apologise for any offence.

P3dro, I think you're main concern, is to make sure that the job has been done properly. Building control would normally insist that the beam sits on 150mm of brickwork, and if it's only a one block thick wall, then I'd consider the job suspect. Does the blockwork sit back on the party wall, or is it flush on your side.

You need to have a word with the neighbor for peace of mind, and ascertain what was done; and if there's any sign of bullshit, I'd go as far as to ask if you can drill a hole through to test the thickness. If it is a crap job, then this'll help him as well. Or just contact BC and talk to the person who signed the job off.

If you do your conversion, then yes, you'll cut into the blockwork (assuming it's 200mm thick) to set your beam in, but if ridge beam only extends by 10mm, then you'll have difficulty grabbing on to it, so it's something you'll have to put aside until you actually decide to do the work. You're neighbor got there first, so you have to deal with the situation you've been left with.

Having said all that, if the house is old enough to have a shared loft, then the party wall might well be 225 thick. I assume that you've got both sides of you're loft enclosed. Can you push a coat hanger with a slight bend on the end of it, through the other side of the loft to catch on to the other side of the wall, and ascertain it's thickness.

 

[tony1851]

@ Doggit - no problem

@ P3dro - what's done is done, but it matters not that the new block wall is only 100 thick.
If and when you come to do a loft conversion, there are several ways of supporting your new ridge beam
without impacting on theirs, and which would not unduly inconvenience you.