neighbour has built on party wall...

[Nakajo]

Assuming the wall straddles the party line, as and when you come to build the extension on your side, you will presumably use the portion of wall which they have built as the return elevation upon which you will place your structure - whether it be a post or a padstone. It's at this point that you would be considered to be 'enjoying' the wall, and their surveyor may advise them to ask you for some money for that - in the same way that you would expect to share the cost if you and your neighbour were both building adjoining extensions at the same time.

 

[p3dro]

Thanks Wessex.
I had an SE up in my loft discussing strengthening my loft floor and he looked and measured and said he thought they have built on my half of the party wall. This was after I asked their builder and he told me he hadn't! I also then drilled some holes after to see for myself (and as doggit suggested) and it looked to me too like its on my half. The only reason I say 99.9% sure is because I haven't been in their loft or house, but the face of the wall they have built in the loft is directly above the face of the party wall in my bedroom below - hence me thinking its on my side of the party wall.
P

 

[wessex101]

@Nakajo But if they have only built a 100mm wall astride the party wall that is going to cause more problems with sound insulation etc. putting the OP in a worse position that is going to cost them more money to resolve so I doubt they would be asked for a contribution. If they built up the party wall correctly to current separating wall standards then the OP could be asked for a contribution and no doubt would be happy to pay half.

@p3dro So how thick is the existing party wall below. If it is 225mm thick and they have built the wall on your side that is very cheeky indeed.

 

[p3dro]

thanks Nakajo.

 

[p3dro]

Hi Wessex, party wall below is 225mm.
I can only see 1 skin of 100mm blocks they have built on my side of the party wall (so far) when I peep through the gap in the joist (as they havent filled it yet.
Good point about insulation, I will ask the neighbour to confirm if the 100mm blocks will be improved upon.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
P

 

[Nakajo]

Btw, unless the stretching the bricks, then the party wall is 215. 225 is a coordinating size, but it makes no sense to talk about a coordinating size on a single depth of brick.

 

[wessex101]

Hi Wessex, party wall below is 225mm.
I can only see 1 skin of 100mm blocks they have built on my side of the party wall (so far) when I peep through the gap in the joist (as they havent filled it yet.
Good point about insulation, I will ask the neighbour to confirm if the 100mm blocks will be improved upon.
Thanks again for your thoughts.
P

That is a shame, I was hoping it was just going to be a storm in a tea cup. It seems as if the neighbour or the builder has rather taken liberties, whether accidentally or deliberately. However it would seem that they cannot really be trusted so I think it is about time you got some professional advice to make sure you are not being disadvantaged. If you can keep things amicable with the neighbour for now and get them to see that the current situation is wrong hopefully they will agree to appoint a surveyor to adjudicate on remedial works required to the new party wall.

 

[p3dro]

Thanks Wessex.
It does feel a bit like my hand has been forced by their builder, but I want to make sure I am not going off half-cocked!
Anyway, I appreciate everyone's advice.
I'll talk to the neighbour tonight and see about her getting a party wall surveyor appointed as you say - that's a great idea.
Thanks
P

 

[chappers]

Probably a bit too late now to invoke a PWA and really only your neighbour can do that. you coulkd take out an injunction but better to negotiate if you are generally on good terms.
What is your concern, the same rights that are afforded under the party wall are available under common law, i.e. your neighbour has a right to use the party wall(it belongs to both of you, a PWA just formalises that right, with conditions of protection, the same protections you have within the law. If you have given your consent for them to build on the party wall they can build on any part of it, there is no your side or their side, it is a party wall. If their loft has gone beyond the party wall that is another matter.
but as I said previously if you dissent then they can dissent to you doing the same or you can get a surveyor to resolve the matter.
Personally speaking I wouldn't worry about it, treat it as wings and roundabouts, they have paid to erect the Party wall, if your own loft structure won't fit into the party wall because of their structure then consider your cost as being the alternative structure you will have to build. I have done many aloft adjacent to an existing conversion and in most situations just moved our steels over adjacent to the existing steels.
For example your neighbour puts their floor beam on the party wall, you put yours on the party wall next to theirs.
This argument has got to the point of splitting hairs and legalities rather than finding structural solutions.

 

[garyo]

Personally speaking I wouldn't worry about it, treat it as wings and roundabouts, they have paid to erect the Party wall, if your own loft structure won't fit into the party wall because of their structure then consider your cost as being the alternative structure you will have to build. I have done many aloft adjacent to an existing conversion and in most situations just moved our steels over adjacent to the existing steels.

I agree with the sentiment of your post Chappers. The thing that surprises me is that a 100mm wall between two properties would be okay regs wise in the future - I'd have thought it'd fall foul of sound regs if nothing else, or the idea of joist/beam tails poking through either side of the same 100mm wall would cause a fire risk issue. The problem being that if the OP wanted to make the wall 215 again then he has no where to put his leaf, or the resulting 215 party wall would no longer be central on the boundary.

 

[chappers]

All very true.
BC are generally happy with a single 7N block as a party wall, with regards to sound. The conversion I'm doing has no other option as the PW is a single leaf.
There are rules with regards to sealing around steels in this situation to prevent the spread of fire.
You are however correct with regards to continuing the party wall up at full width, if the neighbour has built the firebreak up on the OPs half of the wall. He will have to first speak with the neighbours and if that fails then it's off to court to firstly get an injunction on the works and then sort the boundary dispute

 

[tony1851]

Becoming a tedious thread!

OP should have required specific details of the work on/to the party wall before signing anything.

But what's done is done and, as has been pointed out, it is a relatively easy problem to get round if OP later builds a loft.

 

[Nakajo]

I can't see that an injunction is appropriate here. In any case, legal advice must be sought before taking out one, unless chappers is stumping up the cash in the event that the courts don't agree with you.

 

[chappers]

It's the only way the OP can get them to stop the works his neighbour is carrying out if they otherwise refuse.
As Tony says this is getting rather tedious. ask your neighbour to brick up the other side of the PW if you really are that concerned about it and if his steel is in your way then just find a work round for yours. The trade off is you may pay a couple of hundred quid more for a steel post, but you have had the party wall blocked up for free.
As has been said many times getting round this is easy. Resolving neighbourly disputes rarely is.