New Boiler install

[B1N9S]

Just had a local gas fitter round to quote for some work. I am not up to speed with boilers.

He is offering to fit a "Ideal 35kW Condensing Boiler", I'm not too fussed about the cost, I think the price he has given seems a fair one to me. But I am more concerned that he is insisting this is the best boiler to go for. I don't mind paying, but I want the best boiler for my money.

What are your expert opinions, experiences and recommendations.

The house is a 4 bed semi, with 10 rads.

FYI,

He has quoted just shy of £1800 for removing the old boiler, fitting the new one (obviously), fitting new TRV's to existing 9 rads, 1 x new rad fitted in spare bedroom (not one there at the moment). Also a magnetic device for catching crud !!

Like I said, I think this is a fair price for the amount of work, but should I opt for the Ideal Boiler, or would you recommend another ??

 

[dcawkwell]

Atag if it's in a cupboard out of the way. Knocks spots off the Ideal.
The Atag 325ecx has condensate preheat built in so saves on
the hot water costs. Boiler is big and isn't pretty but better than the
Ideal in my opinion.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I would rather stick pins in my eyes than fit an Ideal.


Price also seems a little too low as well, but it is very hard to gauge these things online.


My much puiblished preference:

Intergas
Atag
Vaillant
Worcester


Ideal is somewhere lurking round the back of my U-bend in the same list.

 

[B1N9S]

Thanks mate, it's going to be inside a prebuilt kitchen cupboard (600 mm x 550 mm), so it would need to go in that !

Never heard of "Atag", but that doesn't mean anything TBH !! Thanks again, I will look into it.

 

[B1N9S]

I would rather stick pins in my eyes than fit an Ideal.


Price also seems a little too low as well, but it is very hard to gauge these things online.


My much puiblished preference:

Intergas
Atag
Vaillant
Worcester


Ideal is somewhere lurking round the back of my U-bend in the same list.

Is that because of installation issues, or reliability issues with the Ideal ? Is Ideal a British make ?

 

[dcawkwell]

I would rather stick pins in my eyes than fit an Ideal.


Price also seems a little too low as well, but it is very hard to gauge these things online.


My much puiblished preference:

Intergas
Atag
Vaillant
Worcester


Ideal is somewhere lurking round the back of my U-bend in the same list.

Is that because of installation issues, or reliability issues with the Ideal ? Is Ideal a British make ?

Ideal have history. The Ideal Isar and Icos are possibly the worst boilers
out there with awful reliability problems. Ideal parts are also expensive.
However the logic has seemed to be more reliable and they spent a lot
developing it.
They are pushed and priced aggressively at the merchants so more likely
a good offer on at the moment with a pack of copper pipe or something to make it good to offer the customer. They have a long warranty but be warned that Ideal may well use anything to wriggle out of the warranty.
And miss a service and forget it.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Horrible company. Shlt service.

The Logic (which i suspect is what has been offered) has not been the disaster its last 2 predecessors were; but there are more reports of dying heat exchangers after a few years.

The new Vogue boiler (which is a direct clone of the Vaillant) has some interesting features but there are more companies/boilers out there more worthy.

If you're looking at that price point go for a Glowworm. Vokera are worth a look too.

Try and add a bit more to the budget and get one of the ones I have suggested though.

Long warranties are not the pansear people think they are.

Made in Britain means precisely squat nowadays sadly; the bits may be bolted together here, but the HEX will probably be made in Italy or Turkey, the electrics somewhere in Eastern Europe or China. Then some monkey in Hull throws all the bits in a box and they hope it'll work by the time it reaches you.

Still it could be worse - it could be a Ferroli



*edit* Actually it could be even worse than that - a Keston.

Oh wait... Ideal own Keston

 

[B1N9S]

Horrible company. Shlt service.

The Logic (which i suspect is what has been offered) has not been the disaster its last 2 predecessors were; but there are more reports of dying heat exchangers after a few years.

The new Vogue boiler (which is a direct clone of the Vaillant) has some interesting features but there are more companies/boilers out there more worthy.

If you're looking at that price point go for a Glowworm. Vokera are worth a look too.

Try and add a bit more to the budget and get one of the ones I have suggested though.

Long warranties are not the pansear people think they are.

Made in Britain means precisely squat nowadays sadly; the bits may be bolted together here, but the HEX will probably be made in Italy or Turkey, the electrics somewhere in Eastern Europe or China. Then some monkey in Hull throws all the bits in a box and they hope it'll work by the time it reaches you.

Still it could be worse - it could be a Ferroli



*edit* Actually it could be even worse than that - a Keston.


Oh wait... Ideal own Keston

Thanks for all the info guys.

Dan. I asked if it was made in Britain, not as a "good" point mate !!! British engineering doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, I have to be honest !!! And I am an engineer !!!

I would prefer German engineering. I guess Worcester Bosch are German ?

But are their boilers any good ? The one coming out is a Worcester and it hasn't broke down since I have been here (until now) but, I haven't serviced it either !! 6 years for me and I think it was put in in '96.

Should I go for another Bosch one ?

 

[dcawkwell]

Worcester seem to make cheap nasty plastic stuff inside their boilers now.
I find them just plain annoying. Always wanting to doing things in their own way and making a mess of it.

Not the quality they once were.

I have to say that most manufacturers are cutting and cutting
it will end with deaths as they cut more and more corners.
There used to be a separate combustion chamber under the case.
Now the manufacturers Worcester included are using the outer case
as the combustion chamber. Given the cheap nasty quality of the cases and getting them to fit right to screw up.
It will end in tears.

 

[muggles]

Wouldn't go for a Worcester myself, Intergas, Atag or Vaillant

 

[Agile]

I expect that Worcester boilers may be built in Worcester!

If you want something ( supposedly ) made in Germany you need to buy a Vaillant or a Viessmenn which is made in Germany.

There is a diference between a German owned firm like Worcester and a German manufactured boiler like Viessmann.

 

[Dan Robinson]

My car is made in Japan - and the only known unreliable bits on it are the blo0dy German ones

Bosch are OK. You are paying for top notch aftersales support and warranty. However the Atags and Intergas (and Vaillant) are better engineered; and you're paying for the boiler. Atag and Intergas have Agent support rather than in-house. Some will have you believe that is a bad thing. I actually see it as a positive, but then I am a small business and prefer the closer relationship you get with a smaller brand.

If you are an engineer, and look inside the boilers, you will see what I mean.

Worcester Bosch are assembled here IIRC. Although happy to be corrected. Worcester is a British company bought by Bosch.

 

[B1N9S]

Thanks for all your advise guys. Credit to the forum community.

I don't think he will be fitting an Ideal now.

I will look into it in more detail.

Thanks again to you all.

 

[jaimeclifton]

I've fitted many over the last 6 years, so have a lot of experience over the long term - I've now stopped fitting them due to Ideals poor back up on warrantee call outs and the boilers continuing problems.
Ideal take extended amounts of time to get to customers who've boilers have gone down - up to a week in winter. Their engineers are VERY anal about the installs as well - unless EVERYTHING is perfect they will write a safety notice to the customer - even on tiny NCS issues - then charge £125 to come back and reinspect.
Common faults on the boiler are - main heat exchangers splitting, diverter valve issues, flow turbine issues and fan injectors getting blocked: although I've experienced a lot of other varying issues.
I'm returning to fitting Worcesters - more expensive but worth it in the long term.

 

[B1N9S]

Wow Jaime, you dug this one out mate !!! LOL. I've moved house since then, but still, thanks for your input mate. I might need a new boiler in the 'new' house soon anyway, so good that this thread has re emerged.