To Flush or Not to Flush - New Boiler Required?

[Corgigrouch]

And people ask why I stopped working for Warmfront

Or another way of putting it... Ask people why I won't get involved with Warmfront.

 

[Deleted member 105431]

Ever heard the phrase "beggars can't be choosers"? You are a rogue customer and not someone I'd like to work for; You invite a professional in (at the taxpayers expense) and then question everything he does, (he has told you the truth) and look for anyway not to pay him.


I hope you get your comeuppance sooner rather than later.

 

[kevplumb]

Ever heard the phrase "beggars can't be choosers"? You are a rogue customer and not someone I'd like to work for; You invite a professional in (at the taxpayers expense) and then question everything he does, (he has told you the truth) and look for anyway not to pay him.


I hope you get your comeuppance sooner rather than later.

yeah but your just a bandit

 

[CottenBud]

Read it and weep
Installation
Over the past few years, TRV installation has become even easier. Previously, flow direction through a valve was all-important and installers needed to check directional markings on the valve body to ensure correct fitting. The consequence of incorrect installation was the likelihood of water-hammer in the system.

Flow temperature dependency
In the UK, normal practice has been to install TRVs in the flow with the sensor head vertically above the valve.
While this does not prevent the valve working, it may not permit best control of room temperature. Heat rising from the valve and pipe work below, and from the nearby radiator itself, can cause the TRV to shut prematurely several degrees before the room reaches its set temperature.
This situation can be likened to siting a wall thermostat directly above a radiator; something no experienced heating installer would ever allow.
By installing a TRV with its sensor head horizontally away from the radiator at the flow connection, this problem is overcome and room temperature will be controlled very accurately. In the case of Danfoss radiator thermostats, which are liquid-filled, temperature monitoring occurs at the farthest point from the valve body and, typically, set room temperatures are maintained accurate to within 0.9°C.
Where horizontal installation in the flow is not practical, then fitting TRVs on the return is an acceptable alternative. Here, even if fitted vertically, room temperatures could be held to within 1.8°C.
http://danfoss-randall.co.uk/xxnewsx/bc9b4d5a-bdb9-4d40-9691-43abf6a67fdf.html

 

[Deleted member 105431]

Read it and weep
Installation
Over the past few years, TRV installation has become even easier. Previously, flow direction through a valve was all-important and installers needed to check directional markings on the valve body to ensure correct fitting. The consequence of incorrect installation was the likelihood of water-hammer in the system.

Flow temperature dependency
In the UK, normal practice has been to install TRVs in the flow with the sensor head vertically above the valve.
While this does not prevent the valve working, it may not permit best control of room temperature. Heat rising from the valve and pipe work below, and from the nearby radiator itself, can cause the TRV to shut prematurely several degrees before the room reaches its set temperature.
This situation can be likened to siting a wall thermostat directly above a radiator; something no experienced heating installer would ever allow.
By installing a TRV with its sensor head horizontally away from the radiator at the flow connection, this problem is overcome and room temperature will be controlled very accurately. In the case of Danfoss radiator thermostats, which are liquid-filled, temperature monitoring occurs at the farthest point from the valve body and, typically, set room temperatures are maintained accurate to within 0.9°C.
Where horizontal installation in the flow is not practical, then fitting TRVs on the return is an acceptable alternative. Here, even if fitted vertically, room temperatures could be held to within 1.8°C.
http://danfoss-randall.co.uk/xxnewsx/bc9b4d5a-bdb9-4d40-9691-43abf6a67fdf.html[/QUOTE]

What does that prove apart from the fact you are a very petty little man?

 

[Corgigrouch]

TRVs are a pretty imprcise form of temperature control. The best way to set them is to set them according to how comfortable the customer feels, you cannot rely to, say setting 3 is 21c, you just set them for your comfort. TRVs these days are bi directional and can be fitted vertically or horizontally on either flow or return side of the radiator, I tend to fit them on the end of the radiator that offers the best air flow round them, IE Not jammed in a corner. At the beinning of this story, I did have a bit of simpathy for the OP but it is deminishing rapidly..... A power flush aint the only way to clean a system but it does have the best marketing behind it..

 

[Beerlover]

Cottenbud, have just read your later posts and believe me I'm so happy the GW have nothing to do with Warmfront. You seem nothing but a petty twisted little tw*t Your installer has nothing but my respect for his tollerance of one like you. If it had been myself , you'd be knee deep in water and cold, the only thing you'd have to keep you warm would be your lap top and the phone number of my PL insurer.
I'm so glad my Tax money goes to people like you who can afford a computer, rather than the old needy people frightened to put the second electric bar on their only heater.

Cottenbud hmm... Did anyone tell to stop pushing them into your ear when you feel resistance?

 

[expertgasman]

Engineers don't half talk some carp! They all love to get technical to demonstste their cleverness. Yes, marginally, the heat rising from the flow pipe, but not forgetting that the return is also hot, will be detected by the Trv,but it is more important that the valve is placed on a convenient position, and not affected by curtains, or even sunshine blasting through glass doors etc. Who wants a trv fitted horizontally, it looks carp!

With regard to the warmfront voucher, if I worked that scheme, I would be building the £50 admin charge into the quote, the plumbers mistake was itemising a charge. Why on earth should we be £50 down?

If the powerflushing situation is as the OP presents, then I'm afraid I have to agree with him, if a PF was quoted for, it should be done.

 

[Happyplumber]

Wow I cant believe im agreeing with Agile!!!!this is some pathetic freeloader,who is just causing problems for no reasons

A system has to be clean to British Standards as specified by all manufacturers,no where is "powerflush" specified.I do not believe for moment that anyone from the manufacturer has stipulated powerflush otherwise it would be in their literature.I would love to see this in writing

I feel sorry for the installer having to deal with this kind of free loading parasite,who just takes the **** with his limited know how where the internet is his source of knowledge

 

[Agile]

Power flushing is what GW told me and just draining the system a couple of times is totally inadequate. I’m not a plumber, but I am a qualified engineer and know when the wools being pulled. There could well be other suitable flushing methods but best stick with what the manufacturer stipulates I say.

If you are a qualified engineer then one would expect that you would be earning a reasonable salary of perhaps £30k-£70k and would not be in receipt of any grant aid which is targeted at the needy! You know, single mothers, asylum seekers, unemployed druggies etc.

 

[D_Hailsham]

If you are a qualified engineer then one would expect that you would be earning a reasonable salary of perhaps £30k-£70k and would not be in receipt of any grant aid which is targeted at the needy!

Once again you are showing your ignorance of the Warmfront scheme and haven't bothered to read what the OP said earlier. He has been granted the £300 Rebate, not the £3,500 Grant.

The criteria for the £300 rebate is as follows:

If you are over 60, own or privately rent your home and do not qualify for a Warm Front Grant because you do not receive a relevant benefit, you may be eligible for a £300 rebate.

This rebate is available to help towards repairing or replacing an inoperable system or installing a new central heating system where there is none existing at the property. The cost of work must be over £300 inc VAT and is only available in English Local Authority Areas

So, you never know, one day you may be entitled to the £300 rebate yourself - though you would have to pay another installer to do the work.

 

[Agile]

I would expect any qualified engineer to be reasonably well off and if over 60 then not to be chasing small grants and then getting very annoyed with the installer when they point out that the £300 grant is only paid to the installer at £250.

To my way of thinking a grant paid at £250 is a £250 grant!

I suspect that there is a further "catch" and to use the £250 grant it will be necessary to only use an installer who is registered with Warmfront. Thats very few and they probably increase their prices to cover all the problems of dealing with Warmfront. A cheaper price could probably have been obtained from an independent.

Tony

 

[D_Hailsham]

I would expect any qualified engineer to be reasonably well off and if over 60 then not to be chasing small grants and then getting very annoyed with the installer when they point out that the £300 grant is only paid to the installer at £250.

To my way of thinking a grant paid at £250 is a £250 grant!

I agree that its unfair to charge the installer an admin fee of £50 for processing the grand voucher. However the installer is aware of this before he signs up for the scheme and, as has been pointed out by others, the installer can easily recoup this by upping his cost.

I suspect that there is a further "catch" and to use the £250 grant it will be necessary to only use an installer who is registered with Warmfront.

You are partly correct. The installer has to register with Warmfront to take part in the Rebate scheme, but that's as far as it goes. An installer can be registered for the £300 Rebate scheme but not registered for the £3,500 Grant. Unlike the Grant scheme, Warmfront has no say in the make of boiler, materials used, how the work is carried out etc or the actual cost of the installation. Those matters are determined by the customer and installer.

 

[CottenBud]

Warmfront
Confirmed with Warmfront (3rd time) the customer gets the FULL £300 and the INSTALLER pays the admin fee.
Warmfront’s Statement not mine

TRV’s
Bi directional is to counter act water hammer.
Manufacturers statement not mine
Temperature control IS compromised if mounted incorrectly
Manufacturers statement not mine

System Flushing
Statement -draining the system a couple of times will clean it - WRONG

With the Exception of D_Hailsham who obviously uses his brain a little more than most, the comments below are for the Star readers amongst us.
You really do need to get out more and broaden your minds a little

Dangermouse 46 – it proves I’m write and you don’t know what your talking about!

Beerlover- Calm down little girl! I think your drinking a little to heavily! Does the truth hurt so much? I suppose your work ethic is the same as my plumbers but I bet you still take the old folks cash. Haven’t I seen you on the TV, remind me, what’s its name again, Rough something or other

Expertgasman -The return side is cooler, because of heat loss in the radiator so that’s the best place to fit them. Agree other factors must be considered, as well as seeking your customer's preference, better control or looks. Installer pays because he signs up to pay when he registers, that’s why.
Engineers use their calculators to get things right and not to have their designs compromised by poor installers.

Happyplumber - My job specification stated that flushing was to be done it wasnt! I rang Glow worm engineers (because this plumber had now invalidated my guarantee) and they verbally advised how essential it was to thoroughly flush. It was they who advised Power Flushing not me. Surely you don’t agree with my plumber that simply draining it is sufficient I’m aware of BS 7593

Agile - I’m a retired engineer and eligible to claim. Do you declare all of your taxable earnings so your tax contributions can help those needy?
Do me a favour and read D_Hailsham’s comments again. He’s the only one here with a modicum of sense. You really should get your brain in gear before opening your mouth!

There are those who know, and those who don’t know, BUT there are also those who don’t know they don’t know. which are you???
By by all Im bored with you now

 

[D_Hailsham]

Warmfront
Confirmed with Warmfront (3rd time) the customer gets the FULL £300 and the INSTALLER pays the admin fee.
Warmfront’s Statement not mine

The customer receives a £300 voucher from Warmfront which he gives to the installer. The installer sends it back to Warmfront, who sends him £250.

TRV’s
Bi directional is to counter act water hammer.
Manufacturers statement not mine

Who has said anything different?

Temperature control IS compromised if mounted incorrectly
Manufacturers statement not mine

Can you post a link please.

Incorrect balancing of a system will have much more effect than the orientation of the TRV.

System Flushing
Statement -draining the system a couple of times will clean it - WRONG

You're an expert on cleaning systems?