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New Boiler Technology

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Whilst we have the current range of boilers and they are very efficient and all that good stuff, they don't seem to promise the longevity that the old boilers did. ..or even the reliability. Good news for CORGI guys of course but bad news for the consumer.

Obviously they are more complex but I wondered if there are any "new" technologies being developed for the next generation of boilers to combine efficiency with longevity ?
 
The technology is already there to make boilers that will last!

Components are manufactured to a price for a very good reason!

How many consumers would be prepared to pay for a high quality product?
 
the ones who have just had a cheap combi replaced after only 5 years?
 
Its a good point...of course the economics are the problem.

You spend £800 on a boiler and someone £1000-1500 to fit it and 5 years later you fit another one. So lets say you buy a Rolls Royce all singing all dancing made from Kryptonite boiler costing, say, £1200 and the same to fit it and it should last...how long ? Anything less than at least, and should be more, 10 years and you spend the rest of your life having the saving in gas wiped out by replacing boilers.....

Also I suppose whilst there are people happy to pay £450 on a boiler and replace it every 5 years then that seems a sound economic case....and why manufacturers will never up the quality. If manufacturers can build this super reliable boiler and give it a sensible warranty for the expensive components...10 years then people would buy them. But they won't so people haven't got the choice. Also would people pay for a weather compensator ? The more I read about this device the more "essential" it makes especially if you are moving from an old boiler to a condensing one. Seems a false economy not to maximise your savings in energy.

Is there actually such a top quality boiler around at the moment ? I know people talk about Viesmann (spelling ) but the cust service seems flaky...
 
Good news for CORGI guys of course but bad news for the consumer.

It may be good news for those that install but for us left repairing this ****e it's getting a close run thing as to whether shelf stacking in Sainsburys wouild be a better career.

I've spent several hours today having an almighty argument with Ariston over their carp Microgenus HE combis. The lying b*****ds are yet again covering up design faults. The latest error "E34" is due to a cockup with the flue restrictor rings. The previous recuperator botched repair carried out by an Ariston contractor was only supposed to be a temporary lash up to get the boiler running but was left fort eternity. Now the warranty has just expired they don't want to repair it properly ie potentially change the recuperator....they were happy to bypass a safety device and now they don't want to finish of the job (and leave the boiler safe) just outside the warranty. Threats of trading standards /HSE etc finally persuaded them to re-do the repair properly.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: NEVER BUY AN ARISTON :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
 
Some of the first condensers were very reliable.

Archie Kidd Thermal launched their Model 2 boiler by demonstrating it running without a flue in the lecture theatre of the IEE in London in 1982.

It is not uncommon to find Kidd gas or oil boilers still in service that were made in the early part of the 80s. The design remains almost unchanged in 2008.

Therefore I conclude that the unreliability of modern boilers is down to the constraints of cost and space, neither of which has ever troubled Kidd, which is not cheap and very large and heavy :cry: .

The volume manuufacturers are merely giving customers what they want, a boiler that will fit in a tiny wall cupboard with a rear flue and a sub £500 price tag.
 
Whilst we have the current range of boilers and they are very efficient and all that good stuff, they don't seem to promise the longevity that the old boilers did. ..or even the reliability. Good news for CORGI guys of course but bad news for the consumer.

There are very reliable boilers around. Try Atmos, ACV, Buderus, Viessmann. But you pay for them.

Obviously they are more complex but I wondered if there are any "new" technologies being developed for the next generation of boilers to combine efficiency with longevity ?

1. Air to water Mitsubuishi heat pumps Are closing the gap.

2. Combined Heat & Power boilers are here using an integral Stirling engine.

3. Zeolithe Heat Pump. Vaillant are doing ongoing research on Zeolithe heat pumps which run on natural gas providing DHW & CH. Zeolithe is a non-poisonous ceramic type of material consisting of aluminium oxide and silicium oxide. Operating on a combination of the substance zeolithe, which acts as an absorption system using water as a cooler. These units are floor mounted and resemble a typical boiler in appearance.

Zeolithe heating appliance’s use less energy and are more environment-friendly than electric heat pumps and gas boilers. It provides higher output than the current gas, oil and LPG boilers. Carbon-dioxide emissions are reduced by approximately 20 to 30%. After a number of lab tests a pilot series may be run. Hopes are high for this technology and research and development is well advanced.

4. SteamCell. Developed in Germany, the SteamCell (Micro Heat & Power) mCHP unit produces hot water and electrical power simultaneously. Packaging is neat, about the size of a PC computer tower unit. The SteamCell system can use numerous fuels: natural gas, LPG gas and oil. For other uses, petrol and hydrogen are also possible. Essentially, it is a highly efficient closed cycle steam engine producing heat turning an alternator. The estimated production price per kW is predicted to be up to ten times lower than fuel cell mCHP systems.

Iit is not a full off-the-grid system with two-way metering used to receive from and to supply the electricity grid - the electricity generating company buys surplus electricity from the householder.

5. Hydrosonic Pump Boiler Developed by Hydro Dynamics in Georgia, USA, and currently only in commercial use, this ingenious boiler uses an electric pump to create shock waves which in turn heat water. The resulting energy from shock waves is absorbed by water and subsequently heats the water turning to steam. A number of public buildings in Georgia have installed hydrosonic pumps and have reduced their heating and DHW bills by 30%. Compared to UK prices of natural gas hydrosonic boilers are more expensive to run, although cheaper than electrical element boilers.

The basis of operation is a rotating cylinder within a cylinder that harnesses the power of cavitation. This controlled cavitation generates shock waves, which convert mechanical energy into heat energy.

The hydrosonic pump power generator operates by taking water into the machine housing, where it is passed over a spinning cylinder. Holes in the cylinder, clearance between the cylinder and the housing and the cylinder rotational speed create a pressure differences within the water where tiny bubbles form and collapse. These collapsing bubbles generate shock waves that heat the water.

The process is scale free. The hydrosonic pump generator heats water in a totally different way and creates the heat in a totally different place - inside the liquid where it is needed. The hydrosonic pump has no heat transfer surfaces - the metal surfaces are actually cooler than the water. Scale will not migrate from a hotter liquid and build up on a cooler metal surface.

The Vizor Corporation in Moldavia sell a version of the hydrosonic pump, the Yusmar, that operates on similar principles as the Hydro Dynamics unit with minor differences. Many thousands of small domestic and larger commercial units have been sold in Moldova and Russia. The efficiency is said to be less than the American machines.

6. Hydrogen Hydrosonic Pump Boiler This technology generates plasma, a very hot gas, and heat from hydrogen, obtained from ordinary water, requiring no fuel in the process. If the technology becomes commercially proven, then the energy from this process could be used to cleanly and cheaply meet the world’s demand for electricity, motive, chemical, and mechanical energy, as well as thermal power.

There is a focus on heating and electrical applications. mCHP, including a direct converter to produce electricity. The system may be autonomous of the existing fuel infrastructure and very cost competitive with zero environmental impact. Electrical power generation with this plasma-to-electric power technology lends itself ideally to mCHP and microdistributed electrical power to replace the existing infrastructure. Residential/light commercial units, substation units, and a low voltage local distribution system could totally replace the current central power based system.
 
Whilst we have the current range of boilers and they are very efficient and all that good stuff, they don't seem to promise the longevity that the old boilers did. ..or even the reliability. Good news for CORGI guys of course but bad news for the consumer.

There are very reliable boilers around. Try Atmos, ACV, Buderus, Viessmann. But you pay for them.

Obviously they are more complex but I wondered if there are any "new" technologies being developed for the next generation of boilers to combine efficiency with longevity ?

1. Air to water Mitsubuishi heat pumps Are closing the gap.

2. Combined Heat & Power boilers are here using an integral Stirling engine.

3. Zeolithe Heat Pump. Vaillant are doing ongoing research on Zeolithe heat pumps which run on natural gas providing DHW & CH. Zeolithe is a non-poisonous ceramic type of material consisting of aluminium oxide and silicium oxide. Operating on a combination of the substance zeolithe, which acts as an absorption system using water as a cooler. These units are floor mounted and resemble a typical boiler in appearance.

Zeolithe heating appliance’s use less energy and are more environment-friendly than electric heat pumps and gas boilers. It provides higher output than the current gas, oil and LPG boilers. Carbon-dioxide emissions are reduced by approximately 20 to 30%. After a number of lab tests a pilot series may be run. Hopes are high for this technology and research and development is well advanced.

4. SteamCell. Developed in Germany, the SteamCell (Micro Heat & Power) mCHP unit produces hot water and electrical power simultaneously. Packaging is neat, about the size of a PC computer tower unit. The SteamCell system can use numerous fuels: natural gas, LPG gas and oil. For other uses, petrol and hydrogen are also possible. Essentially, it is a highly efficient closed cycle steam engine producing heat turning an alternator. The estimated production price per kW is predicted to be up to ten times lower than fuel cell mCHP systems.

Iit is not a full off-the-grid system with two-way metering used to receive from and to supply the electricity grid - the electricity generating company buys surplus electricity from the householder.

5. Hydrosonic Pump Boiler Developed by Hydro Dynamics in Georgia, USA, and currently only in commercial use, this ingenious boiler uses an electric pump to create shock waves which in turn heat water. The resulting energy from shock waves is absorbed by water and subsequently heats the water turning to steam. A number of public buildings in Georgia have installed hydrosonic pumps and have reduced their heating and DHW bills by 30%. Compared to UK prices of natural gas hydrosonic boilers are more expensive to run, although cheaper than electrical element boilers.

The basis of operation is a rotating cylinder within a cylinder that harnesses the power of cavitation. This controlled cavitation generates shock waves, which convert mechanical energy into heat energy.

The hydrosonic pump power generator operates by taking water into the machine housing, where it is passed over a spinning cylinder. Holes in the cylinder, clearance between the cylinder and the housing and the cylinder rotational speed create a pressure differences within the water where tiny bubbles form and collapse. These collapsing bubbles generate shock waves that heat the water.

The process is scale free. The hydrosonic pump generator heats water in a totally different way and creates the heat in a totally different place - inside the liquid where it is needed. The hydrosonic pump has no heat transfer surfaces - the metal surfaces are actually cooler than the water. Scale will not migrate from a hotter liquid and build up on a cooler metal surface.

The Vizor Corporation in Moldavia sell a version of the hydrosonic pump, the Yusmar, that operates on similar principles as the Hydro Dynamics unit with minor differences. Many thousands of small domestic and larger commercial units have been sold in Moldova and Russia. The efficiency is said to be less than the American machines.

6. Hydrogen Hydrosonic Pump Boiler This technology generates plasma, a very hot gas, and heat from hydrogen, obtained from ordinary water, requiring no fuel in the process. If the technology becomes commercially proven, then the energy from this process could be used to cleanly and cheaply meet the world’s demand for electricity, motive, chemical, and mechanical energy, as well as thermal power.

There is a focus on heating and electrical applications. mCHP, including a direct converter to produce electricity. The system may be autonomous of the existing fuel infrastructure and very cost competitive with zero environmental impact. Electrical power generation with this plasma-to-electric power technology lends itself ideally to mCHP and microdistributed electrical power to replace the existing infrastructure. Residential/light commercial units, substation units, and a low voltage local distribution system could totally replace the current central power based system.

Very well explained, an education in itself. However what remains a mystery is the inconsistency with which you've articulated this text compared to your usual answers. Or is it copied via google as some might suggest?
 
"This technology generates plasma, a very hot gas, and heat from hydrogen, obtained from ordinary water, requiring no fuel in the process."

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
 
Very well explained, an education in itself. However what remains a mystery is the inconsistency with which you've articulated this text compared to your usual answers. Or is it copied via google as some might suggest?

All my own research and writing.

The steam cell was proposed for large vehicles like buses. The steam cell would run all the ancillaries: alternator, heating, charging, etc. The engine would have no fan belts and it would be designed as an air cooled engine meaning it would be smaller and lighter. The Steamcell could run and the engine be off. Simplicity itself. Pure eletcric busses may need a SteamCell to heat the bus and charge the batteries when needed. But I think hybrids will take hold in buses and coaches.
 
"This technology generates plasma, a very hot gas, and heat from hydrogen, obtained from ordinary water, requiring no fuel in the process."

tell me more about this engine that runs without fuel.
 
"This technology generates plasma, a very hot gas, and heat from hydrogen, obtained from ordinary water, requiring no fuel in the process."

tell me more about this engine that runs without fuel.

There is bit on the web.
 
You're not willing to substantiate your claim then?
 
You're not willing to substantiate your claim then?

I am not claiming anything..I am only supplying information...educating you. I am not doing the research.

Now stop bothering proper people and have a look.
 
a lot of unsubstantiated statements, some of which are very unconvincing, including: "This technology generates plasma, a very hot gas, and heat from hydrogen, obtained from ordinary water, requiring no fuel in the process."

"All my own research and writing."

I am not claiming anything... I am not doing the research

I spy fast backpedalling.
 

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