New Combi Boiler needed. Minefield time.

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Our Alpha CB24 is finally not worth repairing. After changing various sensors, pulling out the diverter valve to change the diaphragm and topping up the pressure vessel air it has thrown up a fault with the overheat thermostat which will not clear with a new sensor fitted so I assume the board has failed now. Anyway I digress, it's a good reason to finally get rid and get a new boiler installed.

I have had 2 guys round to price things up. We have 3 bedrooms. Thermostatic valves already fitted and wireless stat already fitted.

Guy 1 from Butco wanted to fit a Worcester CDi29 which sounded good to me as I believe Worcester are the dogs. We need an up rated gas pipe just from the meter to the T which is about 6 foot, not a big deal. He also wants to put in a condensate pipe with a heating wire. I asked about flushing the system and he said that was £400 extra so I declined. His price was £2200 but came down to £2000. He was more of a sales man than a fitter and tried to close a deal quickly. I said I would think about it.

Guy 2 was a fitter and applied no pressure but said not to bother with Worcester as Baxi are just as good. He said with a Worcester if the pressure release valve goes then the whole boiler has to come off the wall which is a pain. He recommended a Baxi Duo-Tec 33 HE A which is more powerful than the Worcester. He agreed about the gas pipe and said a condensate pipe was needed but not the wire. All in this would cost £1800 including a flush.

My understanding is that a flush is definitely required when fitting a new boiler.

So I just wanted to get a few opinions from you guys on the boilers and prices etc. Any help would be grately appreciated before I fork out for what is an investment at the end of the day.

Thanks
 
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Oh dear!

No installer should fit a boiler on a dirty system because an owner has declined to pay to get it cleaned.

Now should any owner refuse to pay for having a system cleaned!

A power flush is only necessary when the system is very dirty. In most cases a chemical clean is adequate.

Most standalone power flushes are £350 or less. When done as part of a boiler install that should be far less!

The Worcester boiler is a pain for most maintenance but does not HAVE to come off the wall for that.

You seem to be contacting all the one make installers. A competent installer should be able to fit any boiler make.

I would be quoting less for a better model like Intergas, Viessmann or Vaillant.

Tony
 
I've just had a new one. You don't say where you are, but in London I have a small 2 bed house. I was quoted £2,300 by one, £2,400 by another and £1,900 by a third for a Vaillant eco tec 24. which is less powerful than what you are looking for, but this still gives you an idea.

Many try to push Worcester, but I did alot of research and found too much negative feedback on WB. I think they are like Dyson - clever at marketing a not--good product. I looked at alot of forums and many professional installers had complaints about WB.

I would have had to upgrade my pipework for a 28kw, i decided against it even though it was only another 600 or so - but that's because i have concrete floors and would need the pipe running above the floor, which looks ugly.
The powerflush is good practice i am told and should be done with every installation. If you are on a water metre, bear in mind your system gets filled and flushed 2 x and filled a third time. Also, you are likely to spring leaks with the power flush - they do warn you and sure enough i sprung 2.

Hope this helps somewhat

What i learnt in hindsight is that it may have been better to go with a more expensive quote to have it fitted by an accredited installer for that particular brand.
 
The powerflush is good practice i am told and should be done with every installation. If you are on a water metre, bear in mind your system gets filled and flushed 2 x and filled a third time. Also, you are likely to spring leaks with the power flush - they do warn you and sure enough i sprung 2.

All that is required is that the system is clean!

A power flush is not required if the system is clean!

But let the installer take that responsibility for ensuring its clean.

In many cases a power flush is just another way to extract money from the customer and quoting it as an optional extra is in my view wrong. It is either essential or its not required in any particular case depending on the condition of the system!

Tony
 
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Our Alpha CB24 is finally not worth repairing.
Has any of the prospective installers measured the incoming flow rate and dynamic pressure? Are you happy with the hot water flow rate? If so, then a 24kW boiler will be OK. But if you want a faster flow rate and the incoming flow rate is greater than 9.5 litres/sec, you need to install a higher output boiler.

If you want to check the flow rate, time how long it takes to fill a 10 litre bucket. Preferably at the outside tap or at the kitchen cold tap. You need 2.5kW per litre/min.

We have 3 bedrooms.
Is it well insulated, i.e windows, loft and walls? If so you will not need 24kW for central heating; more likely 10 -12kW, maybe even less. Make sure you get a boiler where the CH output can be adjusted to your requirement.

You can check you CH requirement by using Whole House Boiler Size Calculator. (Set the Hot water requirement to 0 Watts as you have a combi.)
 
So wish i had done more research as i have leant an expensive lesson; the output on my new boiler i s less than the old one, i wanted higher output and was told pipes might not accommodate it. So instead of a 28kw got another 24 and the flow is LESS than my old 24.
Gutted
 
Avoid Baxi like the plague. Ours is 7.5 years old, has had a catalogue of failures from day 1 and now i'm looking to get it ripped out and replaced. Pita

Easy to fix BUT need fixing all the time

The intergas sound good to me, simple design
 
So wish i had done more research as i have leant an expensive lesson; the output on my new boiler i s less than the old one, i wanted higher output and was told pipes might not accommodate it. So instead of a 28kw got another 24 and the flow is LESS than my old 24.
Gutted

I do appreciate that its difficult for householders to understand what are really quite simple concepts!

A boiler is rated at the amount of hot water that it can heat.

The actual flow rate can be less that what it is capable of heating! It depends on the dynamic pressure available from the mains water supply.

In addition the water flow resistance also varies a little between different boiler models!

An Intergas has a length of 10 mm tube for the hot water heating. This is longer in the higher power models and consequently has a higher flow resistance. So on a supply with limited dynamic pressure it is possible to actually get a LOWER flow rate with the larger model!

There is a solution and that is a mains water booster pump at about £300 to buy.

Tony
 
Avoid Baxi like the plague

Just out of curiosity, what baxi is it? The duo-tec is a great boiler in my opinion. Now with the added bonus of a long guarantee, 28k duo-tec is more than ample for a 3 bed home, running a single shower.
 

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