New DIY idea.... your feedback needed!
- Thread starter karldorn
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Here's a little clip of one fixing in action http://goo.gl/IHYMxU
Guys, I'm not trying to replace the stud as the best fixing point, I'd never do that, what I'm trying to do is give users an alternative to their normal plasterboard fixings, that is stronger, more versatile, easier to use and quicker to install.
I'm looking for feedback before I do my first production run, not after, so keep the advice and views coming, and if you want to know more please drop me a line through the contact page of my website. Would be great to get something else manufactured in the UK..
Guys, I'm not trying to replace the stud as the best fixing point, I'd never do that, what I'm trying to do is give users an alternative to their normal plasterboard fixings, that is stronger, more versatile, easier to use and quicker to install.
I'm looking for feedback before I do my first production run, not after, so keep the advice and views coming, and if you want to know more please drop me a line through the contact page of my website. Would be great to get something else manufactured in the UK..
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Yes. Letting him know that plasterboard isn't supposed to take heavy weights.
There are already many fitting that take light weights that are far better than his design. That's constructive. Saving him time and money - it won't work.
Not all walls are dot & dab, sometimes you do need a fixing in plasterboard. For Kitchen wall cabinets and radiators I could see them being useful if they work. Beats cutting a hole in the board, putting in a dwang and making good if you need a strong fixing. Not as quick as using a threaded anchor bolt but I think they could actually be better for fixing rad brackets - multiple screws into the one fixing..
Medium/heavy weight light fittings on ceilings too?
Still, cutting an downwards angled slot for a kitchen wall cabinet up high sounds like a pain and not sure about marketing it for installation using a kitchen knife!
You still have a slot and screw holes to fill if you want to reinstate the wall, I'm not really seeing any advantage over other fixing types in that respect.
I carry various fixings to deal with eventualities and would carry a few of these I reckon, assuming they are priced as a wee bit of tin should be!
I wonder if they would work in lath & plaster?
Medium/heavy weight light fittings on ceilings too?
Still, cutting an downwards angled slot for a kitchen wall cabinet up high sounds like a pain and not sure about marketing it for installation using a kitchen knife!
You still have a slot and screw holes to fill if you want to reinstate the wall, I'm not really seeing any advantage over other fixing types in that respect.
I carry various fixings to deal with eventualities and would carry a few of these I reckon, assuming they are priced as a wee bit of tin should be!
I wonder if they would work in lath & plaster?
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The slot doesn't have to be angled, when the fixing goes in it angles the slot. The reason I said about the kitchen knife is to show you that you don't need anything special to fix these things, also have you seen the size of the hole needed for some fixings, I'm just pointing out that it's less damage than some.
Joe thanks for your comments, but I have used plasterboard for 30 years, so I do know what it can and can't do, I have tried to show you in video and pictures how it works, and it does, if it's not for you that's fine.
Hopefully soon I will have them for sale, so you can see for yourselves,
Cheers Karl
Joe thanks for your comments, but I have used plasterboard for 30 years, so I do know what it can and can't do, I have tried to show you in video and pictures how it works, and it does, if it's not for you that's fine.
Hopefully soon I will have them for sale, so you can see for yourselves,
Cheers Karl
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If you've used it for thirty years you'll know that it is non-structural. Even wall tiles have a weight limit on plasterboard, never mind something like a kitchen cupboard. B&Q could never sell such a product as they have no control over how the plasterboard is fixed - and it's weight restricted anyway. They would be liable for injuries. It's just as quick to use a multi-cutter to cut a slot, fix a batten, and fix the cupboard to the WALL. The wall won't fall over. I'm not trying to pee on your camp fire, it's just not a good idea.
I say well done and top marks for ingenuity ! There are lots of plasterboard fixings on the market which are rubbish, plugs pull out , holes get bigger, etc etc, This could be quite useful in certain applications.
A couple of thoughts come to mind ...
1) You are cutting a slot in the board just above your fixing. Nice start, structurally weaken an already not heavy duty substrate.
2) Check out the load ratings for Rawl Uno plugs - you might be surprised.
Taking a large load in shear is fairly easy. Pretty well any of the existing fixings will do that - cf the Uno plugs previously mentioned.
It's when it comes to "pull out" forces which are really important when mounting things like shelves and cupboards then it's a different matter - and I'm usually more concerned about the substrate than the fixing (note the comment about cutting a slot in it).
I've mounted Spur shelving using Uno plugs at work and they'd not fallen off yet - I'm at least as worried about the board which is only fixed to the framework with small "drywall screws". Reason for not just mounting to the frame ? Well the framework just isn't in convenient places for the brackets.
1) You are cutting a slot in the board just above your fixing. Nice start, structurally weaken an already not heavy duty substrate.
2) Check out the load ratings for Rawl Uno plugs - you might be surprised.
Taking a large load in shear is fairly easy. Pretty well any of the existing fixings will do that - cf the Uno plugs previously mentioned.
It's when it comes to "pull out" forces which are really important when mounting things like shelves and cupboards then it's a different matter - and I'm usually more concerned about the substrate than the fixing (note the comment about cutting a slot in it).
I've mounted Spur shelving using Uno plugs at work and they'd not fallen off yet - I'm at least as worried about the board which is only fixed to the framework with small "drywall screws". Reason for not just mounting to the frame ? Well the framework just isn't in convenient places for the brackets.
Sounds ideal in a studwork constructed property, or on a studwork wall.
Some extra re-assurance over existing fixings as you know the screw has 'clamped' it shut. Yes like spring toggles, but can take multiple fixings.
I don't think it's fair to say B&Q couldn't sell it due to liability, they already sell spring toggles that say for 'heavy weight'.
Some extra re-assurance over existing fixings as you know the screw has 'clamped' it shut. Yes like spring toggles, but can take multiple fixings.
I don't think it's fair to say B&Q couldn't sell it due to liability, they already sell spring toggles that say for 'heavy weight'.
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I always carry builders band. If I really need some sort of strapping i can just cut a hole with a multicutter and fasten to the wall or stud. Heavy weights on plasterboard is just crazy. Not only that - it is a hideous looking device anyway - just look at that coat peg.
Drilling a hole is weakening the board, my slot is smaller than most holes required for other fixings. The pull out load is better than others, all fixings state the highest load capable so I'm following their lead. As I said a few on here are very negative hopefully when it comes to market you can see for yourself what it can do.
Your statement suggests that you have little understanding of strength of materials etc.
Compare yours with say plugs. Both need a hole per screw, and I'll concede that multiple closely spaced screws are going to create a weakness, something where you fixing does have a distinct advantage.
But you are making a (relatively) wide slot above the screws - far wider than holes made for plugs and I'd suggest, having a far greater impact on substrate strength.
Unless you are going to restrict suggested usage to vertical loads only - ie coat hooks - then you'll need to provide additional performance date. Hanging anything that isn't flat to the wall (or a good approximation) involves tension forces that will try and pull the fixing out (and the board off the wall). For things like shelves and cupboards, I'm more concerned about pull out than shear failure.
That's not just for the fixing, but also the fixing of the board itself to the framing.
So setup a vertical board and repeat the loading test and lets see the result. That's what you'll need to do before going to market - provide comprehensive loading figures in both shear and tension so (prospective) users will be able to gauge if they'll be suitable.
I'm not trying to be negative, but if you are going to try and get this to market, then you'll have to answer the questions sometime along the road there. And when you get to market, you're going to have to be able to tell prospective users why things like making a slot aren't a problem. People tend to have their "favourite" methods, and that inertia can be hard to overcome.
My dad was brought up in the days of using wood for plugs, and remembered when the revolutionary Rawl fibre plugs came out - which were adopted quickly because they were basically the same as stuffing a piece of wood in the hole but more convenient. He clung on to those fibre plugs for as long as they were easily available and I don't think he ever fully trusted the new fangled plastic plugs !
Compare yours with say plugs. Both need a hole per screw, and I'll concede that multiple closely spaced screws are going to create a weakness, something where you fixing does have a distinct advantage.
But you are making a (relatively) wide slot above the screws - far wider than holes made for plugs and I'd suggest, having a far greater impact on substrate strength.
Unless you are going to restrict suggested usage to vertical loads only - ie coat hooks - then you'll need to provide additional performance date. Hanging anything that isn't flat to the wall (or a good approximation) involves tension forces that will try and pull the fixing out (and the board off the wall). For things like shelves and cupboards, I'm more concerned about pull out than shear failure.
That's not just for the fixing, but also the fixing of the board itself to the framing.
So setup a vertical board and repeat the loading test and lets see the result. That's what you'll need to do before going to market - provide comprehensive loading figures in both shear and tension so (prospective) users will be able to gauge if they'll be suitable.
I'm not trying to be negative, but if you are going to try and get this to market, then you'll have to answer the questions sometime along the road there. And when you get to market, you're going to have to be able to tell prospective users why things like making a slot aren't a problem. People tend to have their "favourite" methods, and that inertia can be hard to overcome.
My dad was brought up in the days of using wood for plugs, and remembered when the revolutionary Rawl fibre plugs came out - which were adopted quickly because they were basically the same as stuffing a piece of wood in the hole but more convenient. He clung on to those fibre plugs for as long as they were easily available and I don't think he ever fully trusted the new fangled plastic plugs !
As a DIY’er I think I would prefer wall plugs, too much faff cutting a slot as opposed to just drilling a hole.
As someone with some understanding of the material, I would be concerned the plasterboard would be more liable to ‘tearing’ from improper cuts, as the load is only applied on the bottom half of the cut, not all around the hole as per a normal plug fixing.
Seems like a neat solution on the face of it, but I don’t think it stands up to scrutiny.
As someone with some understanding of the material, I would be concerned the plasterboard would be more liable to ‘tearing’ from improper cuts, as the load is only applied on the bottom half of the cut, not all around the hole as per a normal plug fixing.
Seems like a neat solution on the face of it, but I don’t think it stands up to scrutiny.
Does a job but not very neat looking. You need to carry out tests using standard test procedures and equipment - i.e. to the relevant British Standard. Just hanging off it isn't good enough. I'd forget Dragons Den. There was a fixing on there for plasterboard that the grumpy woman invested in. Don't know the name but she ain't going to invest in another one and it got the old 'I'm oot' treatment from the others.
At least some of the the load would be applied straight through where the screw goes and not on the slot. If you've ever used gyproc fixing strap (basically just a thin metal band 50mm wide) to support otherwise unsupported edges of plasterboard (eg where double-sheeting with staggered joints) you'd know that it is plenty strong.
Essentially the exposed part of the 'blade' isn't doing very much, it's the part behind the wall that is providing the fixing.
It wouldn't be too difficult to do more rigorous testing. Given the spread of weight and ability to use multiple screws I can't see it being less strong than other 'heavy weight' plasterboard fixings.
Appearance isn't important if the fixing will be hidden by the thing you're putting up, but it would be easy to trim the exposed part with tin snips if needed. I'm guessing the coat hook was used to demonstrate how close together you can get fixings (unlike all other plasterboard fixings I'm aware of).
If you have any prototypes I'd be up for carrying out some real-life testing.
Essentially the exposed part of the 'blade' isn't doing very much, it's the part behind the wall that is providing the fixing.
It wouldn't be too difficult to do more rigorous testing. Given the spread of weight and ability to use multiple screws I can't see it being less strong than other 'heavy weight' plasterboard fixings.
Appearance isn't important if the fixing will be hidden by the thing you're putting up, but it would be easy to trim the exposed part with tin snips if needed. I'm guessing the coat hook was used to demonstrate how close together you can get fixings (unlike all other plasterboard fixings I'm aware of).
If you have any prototypes I'd be up for carrying out some real-life testing.
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