New DIY telephone extension will not work!

[stevediy]

Can anyone help with this telephone extension puzzle.

We have two extensions, one works fine, I replaced the wire and socket for the other but cannot get it to work. I am completely baffled by my failure.

This started when we had the Openreach engineer visit to replace the faulty outside line. He retained the master socket back plate but fitted the latest model NTE5 front plate. This has only three IDC connectors 2,3,5, on the consumer face plate. He fitted one extension into this and it worked, it still works. The engineer could not get the other extension to work, declared it faulty and left it disconnected.

I have no diy experience with phones but I am a good diyer so thought it would be easy to replace the ‘faulty’ extension cable and socket. I got a kit from Screwfix, the type with an extension socket for diy wiring and a cable with a master socket plug fitted. I have been trying to make the extension not using the plug but by wiring the cable directly into the master socket faceplate for a neat ‘professional’ finish.

I fitted the extension socket and wired the cable. I then tested my handiwork by using the cable plug in the master socket and it worked. I then laid the cable to the master socket (5 metres only) and wired it into the IDC connectors using the punchdown tool over the wires already fitted for the other extension. The extension does not work!

I guess I could have damaged the cable when laying it but I was very careful with the clips, have no tight bends in the run, did not pull on it. I find it hard to believe this is the problem.

I pulled out the wires from the IDC connectors and re-fitted them but this had no effect. I have not pulled out the other extension and tried using ‘empty’ connectors because I am fearful of losing our one working extension.

I also tried using just the blue/white and white/blue wires in IDC 2 and 5 only but this does not work.

I am suspicious of the coincidence that I cannot get this new extension cable and socket to work in the same way that the Openreach engineer could not get the old extension cable and socket to work.

Can anyone advise – does this faceplate have difficulty taking two extensions into the IDC connectors? Or is there something about this cable with master socket plug fitted that is not suitable for use as direct wiring? What am I missing here?

Steve

 

[Monkeh]

Fitting two wires in one IDC shouldn't be an issue. What might be an issue is the type of cable (quite probably stranded rather than solid, and likely too small), and the 'punchdown' you have (it is not a punchdown, it has no punch).

I'd buy some proper, solid core cable, a real punch, and a decent quality socket and try again.

 

[stevediy]

Fitting two wires in one IDC shouldn't be an issue. What might be an issue is the type of cable (quite probably stranded rather than solid, and likely too small), and the 'punchdown' you have (it is not a punchdown, it has no punch).

I'd buy some proper, solid core cable, a real punch, and a decent quality socket and try again.

Thanks for this. I only bought the extension kit because it had the IDC connection tool ( I saw the term 'punchdown tool' on other diy sites and thought it was another name for the same thing). The wire is solid core but I can get a different supply and try again as you suggest. This would be a cheap experiment.
Steve

 

[Monkeh]

A little plastic tool like that is not a punchdown (and is not really ideal). The name 'punchdown' doesn't come from nowhere, the real tools are spring loaded and will punch the cable into the blades when you apply sufficient pressure.

 

[simonpolly]

You need a krone idc tool it punches the cable down and cuts it flush,The cable has probably not taken in the idc connections on the back plate.You can with the aid of three way crimps crimp both extensions to one piece of cable then terminate that into the front plate.

 

[TicklyT]

I have never had any big problems using the cheap 'n' cheerful wire inserters supplied in DIY kits, but check the wire has fully entered the metal jaws of the IDC, not just the plastic slot, leaving the middle bit bent into a 'U' across the top of the jaws.

The professional punch-down tools certainly make life easier when you've a few hundred wires to terminate, but they are a bit OTT for a one-off job.

I would suggest looking to the cable type used in the kit as IDC connections only work well on solid cored cables, and both wires in the same terminal should be the same diameter.

If your kit has stranded wires, connecting short tails of solid core wire to the wire ends (crimps, solder and sleeve, or even choc blocs) may get you out of trouble.

 

[stevediy]

You need a krone idc tool it punches the cable down and cuts it flush,The cable has probably not taken in the idc connections on the back plate.You can with the aid of three way crimps crimp both extensions to one piece of cable then terminate that into the front plate.

I have got the extension working!

I will go into detail on how I managed this as it may help others with a similar problem. I noted that a poster in May 2009 seemed to have a similar problem.

I got the extension working using the Screwfix kit cable I described in my first post. The cable is solid core and works fine. However, I found that both simonpolly and TicklyT anticipated correctly that a good connection had not been made at the faceplate.

I had pushed the wires fully down in the IDC connector jaws so they laid tight across the other extension wires so this wasn’t an issue. I pulled on one of the wires to test it for firmness and it seemed well seated. I pulled hard and the wire came out stripping off the plastic covering in the process just like a wire stripper. I thought this was strange so I offered the stripped wire into the IDC connector and it laid loosely in the slot on top of the other extension wire. It was the same for all three terminals, they were to wide to grip the metal of the wire.

The cable that came with the kit had a plug connector fitted for the master socket. I wondered if the wires in this cable might be a narrow guage, that the extension socket with the kit might be a special type to take a narrow wire and that the wire was of to narrow a type for the faceplate. This is not the case. I tried a piece of stripped wire from the old supposedly ‘faulty’ cable that the Openreach engineer could not get to work and it was exactly the same no grip situation.

Unfortunately I don’t have a soldering set to tin the ends of the wire to fatten them up so I folded wads of aluminium foil into the IDC connectors by way of packing, pushed the extension wires in and got a result.

Comparing the IDC connectors on the faceplate with those on the old and new extension sockets they show markedly more gap in the jaws. This could be perhaps because the jaws have been ‘spread’ by the wires from the other extension. These come from an old exterior cable fitted originally by BT. However, they do not look wider than the interior wires to the eye. Unfortunately I don’t have a micrometer to check this. What is more suspicious to me is the faceplate itself. As I detailed, the Openreach engineer fitted a new style NTE5 master socket but the faceplate component does not look new, it is scratched and the edge is chipped. I suspect this is a used component and perhaps this is why the terminals are not tight.

The lesson to learn from my experience is that a telephone extension is not faulty until you have stripped the wires, got them tight with good electrical connection into the IDC connectors at both ends and it is still faulty!

I wonder if it would help if I also posted this as a new topic to aid searching if anyone is searching for help with a similar extension problem?

 

[plugwash]

I suspect this is a used component and perhaps this is why the terminals are not tight.

Could well be, if someone has abused the IDC block in the past (e.g. by puching down oversized wire) it could permanently push it out of shape.

 

[stevediy]

I suspect this is a used component and perhaps this is why the terminals are not tight.

Could well be, if someone has abused the IDC block in the past (e.g. by puching down oversized wire) it could permanently push it out of shape.

Thanks for this suggestion. What if a screwdriver had been used to make connections previously? I came accross a diy web page that suggested using a screwdriver as an alternative to the IDC tool. A small slot head screwdriver with its tapered blade would neatly seat a wire in the bottom of the jaws but in the process would be bound to blunt the cutting edges of the jaw blades and possibly spread the jaws permanently as well. It could leave the IDC connectors capable of taking one wire but no extras - exactly the situation with our faceplate.

 

[Monkeh]

A screwdriver would almost certainly damage a small IDC connector like the ones on an NTE5 faceplate.

 

[stevediy]

Thanks everyone who offered advice. My bodged connections gave a strange sound quality to the phone when in use so I contacted BT and asked if I was entitled to a proper working face plate as part of the BT service - I was - the Openreach engineer visited, in five minutes fitted a new one and now all is well. I have my suspicions that the old extension was never faulty, it was just the face plate to blame for the problem.

 

[Lectrician]

Really rare to see Openreach use something that is second hand.

The engineer doesn't loose out if he fits an NTE, so there is no point in him using a second hand one. I would like to believe he had enough stock in his van too

 

[stevediy]

Really rare to see Openreach use something that is second hand.

The engineer doesn't loose out if he fits an NTE, so there is no point in him using a second hand one. I would like to believe he had enough stock in his van too

It is still working fine after a few days so I think the problem was certainly the faceplate. The engineer who came to fit the replacement would only go as far as to say the connections seemed a 'bit loose' - understandably not wanting to acknowledge any blame on behalf of Openreach.
I think the problem was that the first visit by Openreach was on a Saturday and turned unexpectedly into a big job - replacing the cable from the house to street pole. I expected to be told the fix would have to wait a few days but it was tackled there and then. I suspect the engineers were in a rush to get on to the next job after replacing the outside cable, got impatient with the non working extension and decided it was easier with one extension working to declare the other extension faulty rather than stay and diagnose the problem and be absolutely sure that their 'end' was o.k..

 

[FLIPPINeck]

i also find steve that using an old credit card is ideal for pushing the wires into the idc placement........................