New fuse box needed - would it be easier to become an electrician than employ one?

[SUNRAY]

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[Arbu]

Are you the Landlord or the tenant?

Under the lease, I'm the Tenant. The owner of the freehold is defined as the Landlord. But, because the lease term is 999 years this just seems to confuse everyone here, so don't worry about it.

 

[Arbu]

Erm, did you just imply that demonstrating capacity for changing a light bulb puts you on par with a qualified electrician?

I suppose, by the same measure, cutting your child's nails proves you ready for a career as a paediatric surgeon?

No, I didn't imply that at all. What a stupid comment.

 

[Arbu]

OK, I've got two quotes now. One, a bit cheaper, is on the basis of what my independent electrician suggested:

1 x VML108SPDRK 8-way board with 100A main SW and SPD2 x ADA332G 32A RCBO: type A2 x ADA306G 6A RCBO: type A4 x JK01B Blank module

The other is for:

1x 5way 18th edition AMD2 consumer unit fitted with surge protection and individual RCBOs

The other work which I'm told needs doing is bonding of the water and gas pipes in the kitchen. I had this done some time ago in the bathroom and understood the need. Is it necessary in the kitchen though? I'm slightly surprised at the cost. One of the electricians said that this should be done before the consumer unit is replaced. Is that correct? I don't see why.

Thanks.

 

[EFLImpudence]

The other work which I'm told needs doing is bonding of the water and gas pipes in the kitchen.

At point of entry to the premises - might be in the kitchen.

I had this done some time ago in the bathroom and understood the need.

That won't be necessary any more if you have RCD protection on all the circuits with the new CU and a couple of other conditions are met.

Is it necessary in the kitchen though?

No, unless as above.

I'm slightly surprised at the cost. One of the electricians said that this should be done before the consumer unit is replaced. Is that correct? I don't see why.

Before or at the same time makes no difference.

 

[robinbanks]

Under the lease, I'm the Tenant. The owner of the freehold is defined as the Landlord. But, because the lease term is 999 years this just seems to confuse everyone here, so don't worry about it.

Typically when people talk about landlords and tenants with regards to domestic properties they aren't talking about the freeholder (typically a management company)/leaseholder (typically a person who is registered as owning/paying a mortgage on a residential unit) but instead a leaseholder/shorthold tenant (someone who lives in the unit under contract but does not "own it")

I don't recall/didn't read back to see how you introduced it but this could be the source of confusion ..

 

[RandomGrinch]

I don't recall/didn't read back to see how you introduced it but this could be the source of confusion

1st line of the 1st post!

 

[Arbu]

Typically when people talk about landlords and tenants with regards to domestic properties they aren't talking about the freeholder (typically a management company)/leaseholder (typically a person who is registered as owning/paying a mortgage on a residential unit) but instead a leaseholder/shorthold tenant (someone who lives in the unit under contract but does not "own it")

I don't recall/didn't read back to see how you introduced it but this could be the source of confusion ..

All the fault of MacFarlanes solicitors who drafted the lease back in 1979 then:

"THIS LEASE is made the Twenty-seventh day of December 1979 BETWEEN [ ] LIMITED whose registered office is at [ ] (hereinafter called "the Landlord" which expression shall where the context permits include its successors in title the owner or owners for the time being of the reversion expectant on the term hereby granted) of the one part and the person or persons whose names and addresses are specified in paragraph 1 of the First Schedule set out below (hereinafter called "the Tenant" which expression shall where the context permits include the person or persons deriving title under the Tenant) of the other part"

 

[SUNRAY]

Typically when people talk about landlords and tenants with regards to domestic properties they aren't talking about the freeholder (typically a management company)/leaseholder (typically a person who is registered as owning/paying a mortgage on a residential unit)

Is it not the case with every single leasehold property? The last I knew this accounts for something approaching 20% of new build housing making a significant rise to the current ~ 25% of domestic dwellings being leasehold. Many newbuild customers don't even know they are leasehold.

but instead a leaseholder/shorthold tenant (someone who lives in the unit under contract but does not "own it")

I am in the position of being a freeholder/landlord to STL tenant on one property.
I am in the position of being a leaseholder tenant/landlord to STL tenants on two properties (99 years from 1968 and 299 years from 1972).
I am in the position of being a joint freeholder (Limited company) to a block of 4 properties: joint landlord lessor to 2 leaseholder tenant/landlords to STL tenants on two of those and (this bit gets confusing) landlord/lessor to myself as leaseholder tenant/landlord to STL tenant on one of those, The joint freeholder lives in the 4th property so he is landlord lessor to himself as leaseholder tenant. - To explain this one; it's a block of 4 one bed flats, I had a lease on one flat and absentee freeholder landlord, with another leaseholder we went to court and purchased the freehold and at the same time extended our 1968 leases from 99 years to 999 years and the 2 other flats to 199 years (for a fee to the leaseholders of course) and now we manage the block ourselves.

Oh and freeholder/tenants in common where I live.

Why should it be confusing?

A leaseholder of a property never owns it outright unless they purchase the freehold and even then, in normal circumstances, not until the existing lease expires as it's tricky buying the lease from yourself (or so I was told at point of purchasing the freehold). At the very least They don't own the land - hence the term 'Ground Rent'.

I don't recall/didn't read back to see how you introduced it but this could be the source of confusion ..

What confusion?

 

[JohnW2]

Typically when people talk about landlords and tenants with regards to domestic properties they aren't talking about the freeholder (typically a management company)/leaseholder (typically a person who is registered as owning/paying a mortgage on a residential unit) but instead a leaseholder/shorthold tenant (someone who lives in the unit under contract but does not "own it")

If I recall correctly ..... I think that what in everyday language is called a "Leaseholder" usually is, in legislation and legal documents, referred to as a "Tenant". ... and that would be consistent with the Lease from which Arbu has quoted.

I think that makes sense because, as far as the law is concerned, the only major difference between the person ("tenant" in everyday language) who 'rents a property' and the person who (in everyday language) 'buys a Leasehold property" is the question of when/how they pay they 'rent' for occupying the property, with ('freehold') 'ownership' remaining with the true 'owner' throughout in both cases.

In the former case, "rent" is paid by the Tenant monthly, quarterly, annually or whatever, throughout their period of occupancy, whereas in the latter case, the "Tenant" pays "rent" up-front to cover their occupancy for the full duration of the Lease (21, 99 or 999 years, or whatever).

Kind Regards, John

 

[Arbu]

OK, I'm now the proud owner of a Wylex NM Range Flexible Busbar BSEN61439-3. The electrician said that this solves pretty much all the C2s on the EICR except that for the lack of bonding to the water and gas in the kitchen. He says that this requires trunking all the way from the fuse board to the kitchen. This is a long way, and is going to be unsightly. I already have bonding in the bathroom, which just goes from the radiator to a light fitting, so I'm puzzled as to why it needs to be different in the kitchen. The freeholder/insurer might insist on it, but it seems like none of their business. Do I really need it for my own protection?

 

[EFLImpudence]

The electrician said that this solves pretty much all the C2s on the EICR except that for the lack of bonding to the water and gas in the kitchen. He says that this requires trunking all the way from the fuse board to the kitchen. This is a long way, and is going to be unsightly. I already have bonding in the bathroom, which just goes from the radiator to a light fitting, so I'm puzzled as to why it needs to be different in the kitchen.

It is nothing to do with it being a kitchen.

As I told you, metal pipes must be bonded at the point of entry to the premises.

The bonding conductor must be run from that point to the Main Earthing Terminal of the installation.

It doesn't have to be in trunking.

The freeholder/insurer might insist on it, but it seems like none of their business.

I doubt that but it is irrelevant anyway.

Do I really need it for my own protection?

Yes.

 

[Murdochcat]

OK, I'm now the proud owner of a Wylex NM Range Flexible Busbar BSEN61439-3. The electrician said that this solves pretty much all the C2s on the EICR except that for the lack of bonding to the water and gas in the kitchen. He says that this requires trunking all the way from the fuse board to the kitchen. This is a long way, and is going to be unsightly. I already have bonding in the bathroom, which just goes from the radiator to a light fitting, so I'm puzzled as to why it needs to be different in the kitchen. The freeholder/insurer might insist on it, but it seems like none of their business. Do I really need it for my own protection?

Your spark needs to confirm the installation by is during an EIC and a part p compliance certificate.

I don’t see how the spark can give you the cert without installing the bonding cable(s) from the MET to the entry points of the water (assuming it’s metal) and gas

 

[Arbu]

So are we saying that now that I have had the fuse box updated, I am obliged to get the bonding done, and I won't get the part p certificate until this is done? And why did the previous bonding that I had done in my bathroom from a radiator pipe only have to be to an earth point on a light fitting and not the main entry point?

 

[EFLImpudence]

So are we saying that now that I have had the fuse box updated, I am obliged to get the bonding done,

No, it is part of the job when replacing a consumer unit.

and I won't get the part p certificate until this is done?

How can we know?

And why did the previous bonding that I had done in my bathroom from a radiator pipe only have to be to an earth point on a light fitting and not the main entry point?

Because that is different. That was supplementary (extra) bonding in addition to the main bonding (at point of entry).

Now you have RCDs, supplementary bonding will not be required - that doesn't mean you must remove it; it won't matter.


Bonding is quite a complicated matter. Google it if you are interested.