seahawk2nigel said:
You really dont understand our industry!
It seems I understand some aspects of it better than you.
I feel that you should go away and update your knowkedge on almost ALL aspects of what your saying.
If you can prove to me, by reference to facts rather than your flawed beliefs, that what I was saying was wrong, then I will do so.
Okay - I think I have someone here who feels that he knows it all.
No, not all, just some things.
I am attempting here to educate people with information that is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
No - you are here giving people information that is ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT.
Let me attempt to explain this again....
Firstly I think we have cross purposes on what self certification is all about.
I shall attempt to explain the system to you.
Hypothetical...I come to your home to install a shower circuit. I DESIGN, CONSTRUCT AND TEST this circuit. On completion I produce an EIC (Electrical Installation Certificate) for the works that I have done. I then register this job on line with the NICEIC, ELECSA or BRE whichever organisation that I am with and in turn they will contact the Building Control to ensure the work has been registered and all protocols are met. The Building control then sends to you a letter confirming that the work completed has been registered and completed to the standards necessary.
Yes - that's correct - where are we at cross purposes regarding self-certification?
I do hope that you don't think we are at cross purposes because you don't understand the difference between certifying compliance with BS 7671 and certifying compliance with the Building Regulations.
It is here that I need to highlight one of your comments..
This is so inaccurate that it beggars belief. Please go away and read Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 3210 The Building (Amendment) (No.3) Regulations 2004 and see what it says about work done by people who cannot self-certify
I wrote that in response to you writing "
It is currently illegal for anyone to install equipment without doing this. It is actually a criminal ofence to install equipment and not self certify it."
I invited you to read the law. If you have now done so, please quote the relevant section where it says that it is an offence to install equipment and not self-certify it.
No - the self-certification of which you speak relates to compliance with the Building Regulations. There is no requirement to issue a MEIWC or an EIC.
If sir you are up with the current edition of the BS7671 (Wiring Regulations in case you don't know)
Yes I do know that, thank you, but I don't mind you putting it in your explanation if it helps you remember it.
the section 711-01-01 and 741-01-01 and 741-01-03 quite clearly states that people should test their own work and certify if by producing certificates.
Indeed they should, if they are working to BS 7671, which is not mandatory. And to forestall any more inaccuracies from you, and in a (probably vain) attempt to stop you from making yourself look even more foolish, if you think that working to BS 7671 is mandatory, please quote the
legislation which says so.
You cannot get someone else to test your work as to give an electrical installation certificate, that person must have undertaken the three stages…that is, the Design, Construction and Inspection and Testing. This is a FACT!
Is it indeed?
Then what do you make of the
FACT that there are two versions of the BS 7671 EIC. One where one person signs for Design, Construction and Inspection & Testing, and one where up to three different people sign separately for Design, for Construction and for Inspection & Testing?
I could ridicule you further sir
No you couldn't.
However you could quite easily, I'm sure, make yourself look more ridiculous by persisting in making claims that are not borne out by the facts and which everyone else knows are false.
but I am not in the mood for having an email war with you.
I see. Are you sure you're not just preparing for the situation where you have to abandon your previous claims when it finally dawns on you that you were wrong?
I am a lecturer and teach both the 16th edition wiring regulations and also Inspection and testing.
Well I hope for the sake of your students, and ultimately the public, that you know more about those subjects than you do Part P of the Building Regulations.
If you are as qualified as you attempt to make out
Please produce a quote which shows that I have claimed any particular qualifications.
then surely you would have both these qualifications, and hence you wouldn't be making thee ridiculous comments.
If you want ridiculous comments, try these:
It is actually a criminal ofence to install equipment and not self certify it.
I could actually telephone the police (not that I would) and they could arrest people if it was known that they were installing illegally
I, as a contactor cannot test another mans work
What I did was to point out that these were incorrect or misleading - I didn't make any ridiculous comments.
Further more, I have attended seminars with the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister (OPDM) on Part P and Notifiable works...
And did they actually tell you that it is a criminal offence to install equipment and not self certify it? Or were you not paying attention?
And do you not think that if you want to tell people about the law that you should actually take the trouble to learn about it first?
SO YES I DO KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
You may well know about the Wiring Regulations, and Inspecting and Testing, I can't comment on that.
But it seems pretty clear that you do not understand the relationship between the Building Regulations and the Wiring Regulations, you do not understand the difference between who can self-certify compliance with the former and who can certify compliance with the latter, you do not understand what the requirements of Part P of the Building Regulations are and you do not (surprisingly) seem to understand the structure of the full-length EIC.
DONT BOTHER TO REPLY UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING POSITIVE TO SAY AND NOT ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.
I have something positive to say: Please improve the accuracy of information on this forum by ceasing to give advice on subjects where your knowledge is insufficient.
And please don't try to avoid criticism of your flawed pronouncements by dismissing any analysis of them as absolute rubbish and requesting that such analyses not be posted.
