New kitchen ring main

[RayDHK]

Hello experts!!

This is my first post so forgive me if it has been asked a hundred times before.

I'm trying to install a new kitchen, when at 58 I should be relaxing. I've read some of the forum and I need advice on the best and easiest way to run cable.

1. Should I chase the walls out behind the cupboards below the worktop or use oval conduit at wall level and then chase it to the socket.
2. Should I go up and down under the floor between two doubles 3ft apart or across and then down under the floor boards.
3. I have the same dilema for a light switch and cable run for the under cupboard lighting for which I have two seperate drops iether side of the cooker.

I hasten to add that the whole area will be covered by a splash back.
In total I am adding two doubles on the right of the cooker and a spured fused
switch to the cooker fan & light plus one double on the left of the cooker. The ring will also incorporate two other floor level exsisting doubles in other areas of the kitchen. My electrician returns next week and will second fix the conservatory sockets and external lighting.

However I would like to crack on with the kitchen while he is away earning his rest. Don't want to waste my time and his, please advice would be welcome.

Thanks
Ray

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My electrician returns next week

I'm afraid you will have to wait for his return.

The work you describe is notifiable, so you'll be needing him to certify that he did all of the work, which includes design and construction. He's not allowed to certify that if he didn't actually do it, so all such questions can only be answered by him.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[ebee]

My electrician returns next week

I'm afraid you will have to wait for his return.

The work you describe is notifiable, so you'll be needing him to certify that he did all of the work, which includes design and construction. He's not allowed to certify that if he didn't actually do it, so all such questions can only be answered by him.

Unless of course you are doing it under his supervision as he was employing you but then he would have already answered these questions if that is what he had intended.

So, as Ban says, you should wait for his return

 

[RayDHK]

Thanks for the quick response....

I am now a little confused. If my electrician has to design and construct then at what point is electrical work D.I.Y. or is it a case of DIY DON'T. Please don't take this as a criticism of the forum or your answer.

I understand that he has to certify the work but all I am doing is a labourers job of knocking out the plaster channels no connection work involved. If this is classed as design and construction and part of certification then the whole subject of D.I.Y electrical work surely should be taboo.

I was under the impression that if you did any D.I.Y electrical work then it would be of paramount importance to have the work checked by a qualified electrician afterwards.

Am I wrong to have this understanding.

Thanks
Ray

 

[ebee]

In England & Wales ALL domestic electrical work comes under Part P of the building regs.
Under Part P some work is notifiable some is not.
If it is you must notify prior to commencement and pay the fee all with at least 2 working days notice.
If you are in a recognised scheme you may notify afterwards.
Your electrician should be in a recognised scheme or if not he should pre notify just like you should if you were doing it yourself. If he is in a scheme he can only notify of his own work - if he employs someone he must supervise them adequately.

Whether he could employ you to do a little minor labouring at your own property is questionable anyway but he would have instructed you on what to do if he had intended that.

If you look up Part P on this forum there is loads of info about it.

Sockets in kitchens are notifiable

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If my electrician has to design and construct then at what point is electrical work D.I.Y. or is it a case of DIY DON'T. Please don't take this as a criticism of the forum or your answer.

I was assuming that as you were using an electrician, and as the work is notifiable, that you'd taken the route of using an electrician registered to self-certify compliance with the Building Regulations.

There's no legal impediment to you DIYing the whole lot, but if you want an electrician to say that he did it, then he has to have done it.

I understand that he has to certify the work but all I am doing is a labourers job of knocking out the plaster channels no connection work involved. If this is classed as design and construction and part of certification then the whole subject of D.I.Y electrical work surely should be taboo.

It is classed as such, because the routes and depths of cables are subject to requirements in the Wiring Regulations.

In the same way that an electrician can design something, and then have an apprentice do the bashing of walls under his supervision and guidance, there's nothing to stop you doing the bashing of walls, but also under his supervision and guidance.

So as long as he has told you where to chase the walls, and how deep, and he's able to check that you did what he told you before he installs the cables that's fine - what you can't do is to present him with somebody else's design decisions and expect him to sign a certificate to say that they were his.

I was under the impression that if you did any D.I.Y electrical work then it would be of paramount importance to have the work checked by a qualified electrician afterwards.

If it's notifiable work then there's more to it than that. The options are to DIY, in which case you must apply to the council for Building Regulations approval, in advance, and they will tell you what they'll do, or will want you to do, about getting the work checked

or

you use an electrician who is registered to self-certify Building Regulations compliance in which case there is no need to notify in advance - the electrician notifies the council when he's finished the job.

Am I wrong to have this understanding.

http://www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:part-p

 

[JohnW2]

So as long as he has told you where to chase the walls, and how deep, and he's able to check that you did what he told you before he installs the cables that's fine - what you can't do is to present him with somebody else's design decisions and expect him to sign a certificate to say that they were his.

...except that one imagines that (s)he would/should be happy to sign the certificate if the design decisions which had been made were, in fact, the same as the decisions (s)he would have made him/herself, or would have been happy to make him/himself.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Bit iffy though.

Look at ebee - in his professional opinion running cables horizontally between accessories, or in the 150mm corner zone etc contravenes 134.1.1 and/or does not meet the requirement for reasonable provision in P1.

Argue all you like about the validity or popularity of such a position, if it's not something which he would ever want to do it's unreasonable to expect him to sign it off because somebody else says it's OK when he thought he was in charge.

 

[JohnW2]

Bit iffy though.

I think the only iffy part of it is that it's a gamble. If one makes design decisions with which the electrician does not agree, then one obviously cannot expect him/her to sign the cert.

If an electrician refused to sign a certificate on the basis that (s)he had not made all the design decisions, even though the decisions made were the same as the ones they would have made themselves, then it would IMO be hard to see that as anything other than bloody-mindedness.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[RayDHK]

Well thanks to all.

unfortunatly my kitchen has now come to a grinding halt for another week or more. I have a conservatory I can't use because it's part kitchen My lady is not a happy bunny!!!

Had a look at Part P. I am amazed to find that adding a couple of sockets in my kitchen is such pain in the proverbial *!*&. It would seem the I can add what I like as far as sockets in the rest of the house but not the kitchen.

In this technological age there is an equal if not more use of electrical items in the living room than the kitchen, TV, computer, games consul, stand lamps, reclining chairs, DVD'S, sat boxes, routers, many a spaghetti junction of wires adapters,and three and four gang extensions.

This I would have thought, far more of a concern as far as safety is concerned and more in need of these regs than a kettle socket.

Well off to sweep up the debris, clean up and make the mess a tidy mess.

Thanks again to all..
Ray

 

[JohnW2]

In this technological age there is an equal if not more use of electrical items in the living room than the kitchen, TV, computer, games consul, stand lamps, reclining chairs, DVD'S, sat boxes, routers, many a spaghetti junction of wires adapters,and three and four gang extensions.

True - but there's less water, wet hands and high-powered electrical equiment in most living rooms. I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with the legislation, but can understand how it came about.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[krisdorey]

At least credit to Ray that when he was told about Part-P and he read about it himself that he is taking it onboard.

Refreshing change from those "well Im going to ignore you, not bother reading and do it anyway" usuals.

 

[securespark]

That's what he's doing on the quiet...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Let's hope not, as his electrician returns next week...