New laminate floor, joints going all over the place

[badfloor]

Hi All,

I recently had a local company supply and fit some Quickstep Exquisa laminate and it's having major problems.

The joints on the short edges of the boards are coming apart (vertically) under pressure from general foot traffic, as shown in this picture: http://imgur.com/gDVfWOd

When it was fitted, there was one bad joint which the fitter (grudgingly) returned to fix by opening up a gap and putting glue into the joint, but now the same problem is occurring all over the floor.

We selected the flooring, but the underlay was chosen and supplied by them. The floor is laid onto new chipboard floor on the ground floor of the house. The underlay they used was pale yellow foam which I've measured to be 3mm thick. It's very squishy and can easily be permanently compressed between your fingers making a popping sound.

I'm convinced that they've used cheap, unsuitable underlay and the floor needs taking up and re-laying with proper underlay but this is going to be some major upheaval. I've since fitted skirting boards and redecorated so that'll all need to come off and I'm certainly not doing that myself or at my own expense.

I know I'm going to have trouble with them on this. They were a nightmare to deal with when they fitted it, and I can see this ending up in the small claims court.

Is poor underlay likely to be the cause of these problems, or is something else at work here?

Any opinions gratefully received....

 

[big-all]

heeelllooo and welcome badfloor

are you showing us a step between boards that are slotted together ??
or sitting side by side unconnected
what underlay was used

i will now stand to one side as i havent done a floor for 10 years

 

[RogerBoyle]

can you post some additional Pictures ? Some showing more of the floor and some showing more of the joints just not as close and at different angles please..

It is quite possible that they have used a very cheap underlay but not necessarily one that isn't fit for purpose as even some of the more expensive foam underlays can be easily squished

 

[badfloor]

heeelllooo and welcome badfloor

Thanks very much!

are you showing us a step between boards that are slotted together ??
or sitting side by side unconnected

The edge shown is where two of the short edges of the boards join. There's no problem with the longer edges but they join differently with a deeper tongue/groove arrangement.

Here's another pic without foot pressure on the board: http://imgur.com/ludPEzE

You can produce a vertical movement of about 2-3mm on many joints, and the ones where there's much foot traffic are getting worse and worse. Removing the pressure causes the depressed side of the joint to pop back up into place.

Walking around normally produces clunks and creaks as the joints pop in and out of position.

what underlay was used

Underlay as described above, squishy 3mm yellow foam stuff, not Quickstep.

 

[badfloor]

can you post some additional Pictures ? Some showing more of the floor and some showing more of the joints just not as close and at different angles please..

It is quite possible that they have used a very cheap underlay but not necessarily one that isn't fit for purpose as even some of the more expensive foam underlays can be easily squished

Just took these: http://imgur.com/0IEt8hh,v7D6mIK#1

You can use the arrow keys to switch between images. There's about 2mm vertical movement when subjected to normal walking pressure.

 

[footprints]

i'm not a professional floor layer so defer to others opinions but my view for what it's worth is this.

At a guess the new chipboard floor might not be level or perhaps is not stable allowing the floor to flex. Otherwise as you say possibly a poor underlay but if it is crushing I would imagine it would crush both sides of the join evenly.

I have only laid a couple of Quickstep floors one planked and one square tiles I used Quickstep for the planked and another non Quickstep thicker 4mm one for the tiles no trouble at all, the ends fitted really well, but it was over concrete.

Another possibility of course is the installer has damaged the tongues by using a poor technique to assemble them.

Try bouncing on the floor if the chipboard seems firm, the way to go might be contact Quickstep, chances are they will blame the underlay because it's not theirs and give you a bit of ammo to use against the installer.

 

[RogerBoyle]

LOL if you toggle it fast enough it looks like your doing the hokey cokey

Provided the subfloor is solid then Its a combination of the underlay is crap and I don't think they have fitted the ends properly as looking at the photos when you stand on one tile the other doesn't move... Leading me to believe it hasn't quite clicked in properly

From what you have described it is the cheapest of the cheap PE foam type that usually costs around 50 pence per Square Meter and in some cases is fine But I have always used the silent floor gold for the majority of my installs and recommend the soundproofing matt in addition for flats

 

[badfloor]

At a guess the new chipboard floor might not be level or perhaps is not stable allowing the floor to flex. Otherwise as you say possibly a poor underlay but if it is crushing I would imagine it would crush both sides of the join evenly.

The sub-floor's stable, but the joints on the short edge of the Quickstep are a bit unusual. There's a plastic strip that sits in a slot on each side of the joint, and a tongue coming out from one side under the other.

I've tried to draw the joint. The red diamond is the plastic strip viewed in cross-section. There seems to be vertical stability from one side but not the other.

http://imgur.com/0VOgTCC

You can guess which side of the joint can be depressed.

Another possibility of course is the installer has damaged the tongues by using a poor technique to assemble them.

This is a possibility. The guy damaged our new kitchen while fitting the floor by slotting the floor under the adjustable cabinet legs and not tightening them down again.

Try bouncing on the floor if the chipboard seems firm, the way to go might be contact Quickstep, chances are they will blame the underlay because it's not theirs and give you a bit of ammo to use against the installer.

It's rock solid. It's 18mm flooring grade chipboard on 25mm polystyrene on concrete. There's no flex in it at all.

Either way, the fitters supplied the floor so it's up to them to put the blame on Quickstep, contract of sale and all that.

 

[footprints]

Yes looking at your dance video ,the joint is not holding properly at all almost wonder if the plastic insert has been left out!

 

[badfloor]

Yes looking at your dance video ,the joint is not holding properly at all almost wonder if the plastic insert has been left out!

I was convinced that was the case with the one they came to fix, but it was in there. Now the problem is occuring over all 30 square metres of it

 

[footprints]

What is the range of Quickstep called that has this plastic insert? I had a look and found the only similar range was Exquisa but when I looked at the installation instructions it looked like the standard Quickstep one.

I'm wondering if it's a recent idea that is not working too well, a search for "problems" or something similar for the range might throw up other people with the same trouble.

Either way I guess Quickstep is the place to start.

Regards,
footprints

 

[badfloor]

What is the range of Quickstep called that has this plastic insert? I had a look and found the only similar range was Exquisa but when I looked at the installation instructions it looked like the standard Quickstep one.

I'm wondering if it's a recent idea that is not working too well, a search for "problems" or something similar for the range might throw up other people with the same trouble.

It's this (exact) range: http://www.quick-step.co.uk/laminat...-galaxy?id=Flooring_FloorAggregate/005_428718

I did take a look at the installation instructions but they seemed pretty generic and not specific to the particular type of joint.

The Quickstep warranty terms are very restrictive and specify that you must be able to prove that Quickstep tools and fitting accessories, which I'm guessing includes underlay, were used. Fat chance I think.

 

[footprints]

I would still contact Quickstep by phone, it's always a matter of luck as to how helpful an advisor from any company will be, but if you are lucky you may gain some information to help you in getting a solution. At least you will have some clout to your complaint and should be able to counter any bulls**t the installer gives you.
Then it is off to trading standards to see if they can suggest your best move.

Hope it gets sorted out for you,
footprints

 

[badfloor]

Quick update on this...

Quickstep said it sounds like the joints haven't been tapped in properly and blame the fitters.

I've surveyed the whole floor and there are about 12 joints that are bad, predominantly in the areas with the greatest foot traffic so it can only get worse.

 

[RogerBoyle]

TBH I would have been surprised if they had said anything else

I would take the opportunity when you speak to the fitters to try and get a better underlay fitted and watch them while they do the remedial works

Just out of curiosity did the join that the fitter came back and glued in front of you open up again ???