New Stairs to Loft Room

[RonnyRaygun]

A question that the architects / technicians might be able to answer.

A colleague and I are having a debate regarding stairs to a non-compliant loft room.

The room is currently used as an office but access is from a ladder.

The question is, does the installation of a staircase require the rest of the office to be upgraded to current building regs standards? Or can it still be considered a non-compliant room, as long as the client is informed as such?

Thanks!

 

[RandomGrinch]

Hi,

Only a DIY'er, but I have spent many an hour researching 'loft storage' rooms.

My conclusion - if any work you would do on the loft required structural work i.e. putting in a Velux, modifying the roof structure or load bearing walls etc,; BC would have to be informed; they would immediately see that as a habitable room and enforce regs.

If BC didn't have to be involved with fitting the stairs, then how would they know!

But then comes the moral question - these regs are there for a reason, and with loft rooms, that's predominantly fire safety. How would you feel if a fire broke out in the occupants house and they were trapped in the loft?

How would the reputation of your company be affected by being involved with a non-compliant install?

Just some things to think about!

Edit: Loft storage room companies can get away with doing a conversion, as they would assume the loft will only be used as a 'storage space' - in your case there is no plausible deniability!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Building Control compliance responsibility lies with the building owner nobody else.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Once a permanent stair is fitted in the eyes of BC it is considered to be a non compliant loft conversion and always will be until it is signed off by BC.

 

[^woody^]

The installation of a fixed flight creates a de facto 2nd floor in the house, and brings in to play any associated requirements because of that.

And don't forget the insurance implications

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Right. So my feeling is that our duty would be to warn the homeowner that the installation of a staircase to a non- habitable loft space would require additional upgrading to the existing room.

However, the decision would be with the homeowner as to whether they took our advice.

It feels to me like it’s a question of ethics - is it ethical to assist a homeowner in circumventing the regulations? I guess not. A compliant conversion is not practical due to lack of headroom once the upgrades have been carried out, so my guess is either nothing will get done or he will go ahead and install the stairs without professional input.

 

[^woody^]

So my feeling is that our duty would be to warn the homeowner that the installation of a staircase to a non- habitable loft space would require additional upgrading to the existing room.

It depends whether domestic building regulations and domestic loft conversions are within your area of expertise. The fact that you asked here would imply not, so no duty.

 

[RandomGrinch]

As above you don't have any duty and building control compliance is the homeowners responsibility.

My perspective is that of a house owner with a tiny bit of knowledge (what a dangerous thing!).
I know that I shouldn't be doing certain things, but I could still ask you to install a stairway!
A lot of installers may just get on and install it without a thought.
The problem for you, is you know it is 'against the rules'...and you have some scruples - if the room was an empty 'storage space', would it be an easier decision to make?
With the demand for building work at the moment, you may be able to be picky over the jobs you take on and thats not a bad thing!

 

[tony1851]

While it is ultimately the building owner's responsibility to ensure compliance with building regulations (though this may change when the Building Safety Bill becomes law), there is the question of proximity and duty of care.

I suspect the law would assume that R.R. would at least be aware that there may be a compliance issue, and should advise the homeowner to check the rules. The fact that the quesion has been asked on this forum is an indication of doubt.

As for being involved in any design work for the job itself, I'b be inclined to play safe and walk away.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

It depends whether domestic building regulations and domestic loft conversions are within your area of expertise. The fact that you asked here would imply not, so no duty.

Well, structure is my area of expertise. The question applies to whether it would be appropriate to design an opening for a staircase knowing the homeowner has no intention of upgrading the rest of the attic space (structurally or otherwise). The client does have an architect involved who doesn't seem to have warned the client of any of the potential issues, with regard to structure, fire, conservation of fuel & power, the fact that upgrading to comply will mean headroom is reduced to around 1.9m etc etc.

The project is being run by a colleague, who only designed for the stair opening and to strengthen the floor (as requested by the client), while the boss has told him to do a remedial design for a full loft conversion. The client doesn't want this, and so isn't going to pay for it anyway (and this was agreed).

So does warning the client that they are creating a non-compliant structure absolve us of future responsibility, or should we just not get involved?

 

[RonnyRaygun]

While it is ultimately the building owner's responsibility to ensure compliance with building regulations (though this may change when the Building Safety Bill becomes law), there is the question of proximity and duty of care.

I suspect the law would assume that R.R. would at least be aware that there may be a compliance issue, and should advise the homeowner to check the rules. The fact that the quesion has been asked on this forum is an indication of doubt.

As for being involved in any design work for the job itself, I'b be inclined to play safe and walk away.

Thanks Tony. That was my opinion in a nutshell.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

if the room was an empty 'storage space', would it be an easier decision to make?

I've actually done a staircase into an attic for a very rich client who decided he'd spend thousands to install a staircase into his loft so he didn't have to climb a ladder to get the suitcases and Christmas decorations (or possibly so the butler didn't ).
That job was a total PITA as it involved cutting the bottom chords and struts of several trusses and installing a lot of steelwork.

But yeah, a doorway was provided at the bottom which I assume complied with fire regs - not sure about Part L on that occasion, but I do assume the architect advised.

 

[RandomGrinch]

I'm wondering if you could agree to the work, on the condition that the client would provide a signed waiver - agreeing that the work is in contravention of building regs for a habitable space and absolves you of any liability, should building control enact enforcement?

It would clear your conscience and leave the client in no doubt that the work could be problematic with regs!