New system boiler problem

[D_Hailsham]

I can understand everything except the following:

A) Boiler (B)
2...Switched live to TB1 (via the P)

Which "P" terminal does it use as a junction?

B)...Programmer (P)
2...nothing

What is connected to "P" terminal 1? Do the terminals on "P" have any labels, apart from numbers?


Terminal Block (TB)
1...to B2/V4/
Which "B" and "V" terminals do you mean?

2...to P1/P(N)/V3/CT2
Again,which terminals do you mean?

What are the model numbers of the valve, thermostats and programmer?

 

[oldBiker]

Sorry,minor error on last post............
Terminal block should have read...........
TB......
1...to B2/V4/P1/CT3
2...to P(N)/V3/CT2
3...to P3/CT1
4...to S2/V2
5...to P4/S1
6...to V1/S4
7...nothing
8...earth
The difference is P1 at TB1 has moved from TB2
Need a modified wiring diagram for my new boiler...........
old Biker

 

[oldBiker]

I response to your last post.................
A) The switched live is a wire running from the boiler, via the programmer through a connector at the programmer, and is connected then to TB1.
B) Nothing is connected to the terminal 2 at programmer.
C) terminal 1 at programmer is connected to TB 1 which is live. (was previously identified as terminal 2 which is Neutral)
D) Terminals at programmer are N/L/1/2/3/4
E) B2 is Boiler 2, and V4 is valve 4
F) P1 is programmer 1, P(N) is programmer neutral, V3 is 3 port valve connection 3, and CT2 is Cylinder thermostat connection 2
F) The valve is a three port valve Drayton, prevously ACL
G) The programmer is ACL Lifestyle
H) The thermostat is an ACL type
OldBiker

 

[D_Hailsham]

Replying to your last two posts

Terminal block should have read
TB......
1...to B2/V4/P1/CT3
2...to P(N)/V3/CT2

The difference is P1 at TB1 has moved from TB2

But you originally said:

Programmer (P)
N...to B3 and TB2
L...to B1
2...nothing
3...to TB3
4...to TB5
No mention of a terminal 1. But in your next post, below you say the progammer has the following terminals: L, N, 1, 2, 3 & 4. Using these names, please clarify what each programmer terminal is connected to.

A) The switched live is a wire running from the boiler, via the programmer through a connector at the programmer, and is connected then to TB1.

Is the connector at the programmer a "spare", i.e not L or N or 1 or 2 or 3 or 4?

B) Nothing is connected to the terminal 2 at programmer.

Got that already.

C) terminal 1 at programmer is connected to TB 1 which is live. (was previously identified as terminal 2 which is Neutral)

Terminal 1 was not listed first time.

E) B2 is Boiler 2, and V4 is valve 4

Thanks , I now realise that you are using the numbers you gave to each terminal. I got confused because you sometimes used names, e.g P(L) or White.

P1 is programmer 1, P(N) is programmer neutral, V3 is 3 port valve connection 3, and CT2 is Cylinder thermostat connection 2

Got that.

F) The valve is a three port valve Drayton, prevously ACL
G) The programmer is ACL Lifestyle
H) The thermostat is an ACL type

They are the makes. I need the model numbers - usually on the back of the thermostats or on the valve cover

Can you confirm that the valve has only four wires (plus earth?)

 

[oldBiker]

In response to your last reply...........
My fault first time around as I missed out showing Programmer terminal 1 which goes to TB1. (When I re-installed the cables after checking yesterday, I put the blue int TB2, which caused a short, anyway I realised the error and resent the post in the early hours).
Programmer(P)
N...to B3 and TB2
L...to B1
1...to TB1
2...nothing connected
3...to TB3
4...to TB5
The programmer is a lifestyle model with a date of Jun1991. No other details on programmer. There is a diagram on the inside cover which shows L connected to 1 or 3 (HW) and 2 or 4 (CH), each by switch which I presume is the timer, where 1 is HW, 2 is CH and both are shown in an OFF mode with 3 as HW and 4 as CH, with 3 and 4 shown as the ON mode. Hope this makes sense.
The connector at Programmer is a standard chocolate block type of connector located in the back box and taped over.
The roomstat is ACL model TS 142 with three cables plus earth.
The 3 port valve is a Drayton mid position actuated, code MA1, with five wires.....blue/white/grey( I have referred to this in my previous text as black)/orange (I have referred to this in my previous text as red) and an earth cable.
Hope you can understand all these changes of information...........
oldBiker

 

[D_Hailsham]

OK

Boiler (B)
2...Switched live to TB1 (via the P)

I assume this goes via the choc block you mentioned

If so, here are the changes you need to make:


Programmer (P)
N...Should connect to B3 and TB6 NOT B3 and TB2

Terminal Block (TB)
1...should connect to B2/V4/CT3 NOT P1
2...should connect to V3/CT2 AND P1
6...should connect to V1/S4 AND P(N)

I have a spare cable running from the Programmer to the Terminal block.
I have a spare cable running from the Programmer to the boiler

Are these cables connected to anything at either end?
If not, they are redundant.

 

[kevplumb]

have to be fair mr hailsham

we may not always agree

but

you have some patience

 

[oldBiker]

Mr Hailsham,
You are an absolute star.
Unfortunately I did not receive your response until today (Monday) when I am away from home again until Thursday night.
I went to the Stafford classic motorbike show yesterday on my bike, and didn't get home till late.
I have left the system working without the HW (my wife will use the immersion in the meantime), but at least she will have heating from the boiler whilst I am away.
When I return home on Friday, I will put your suggestions into place, and hopefully we will have a result.
I can only thank you sincerely for having such patience with me on this matter, and for spending time to come up with a solution for me.
I know two registered plumbers, but they do not have a clue about wiring as we have discussed.
Thanks again, and I will keep you informed on the result........
oldBiker

 

[oldBiker]

Oh, forgot to say....
1) Yes the switched live goes via the chocolate block.
2) The spare cables were installed as spare for the future, and are not connected...........
oldBiker

 

[Agile]

Mr Hailsham,
You are an absolute star.

I have left the system working without the HW (my wife will use the immersion in the meantime), but at least she will have heating from the boiler whilst I am away.

oldBiker

You mean you did not take your "bird" with you to air her leathers?

Tony

 

[oldBiker]

My 'bird' is an old bird, and does not do bikes.
Besides if you know owt about biking you will know that biking is best done on your own............bike that is.
I sometimes go out with other old pals each on our own very fast bikes, (thousand Suzukis etc) into North Yorkshire or North Wales (bad bobbies) although we don't go above speed limits, especially in lower zones.
My older pals say that biking is better than sex....I always disagree, but they say that biking lasts from 4 to 6 hours !!!! So........
Over to you

 

[Agile]

I didn't mean your bird went on HER bike!

But on the back of your bike, clinging on to you for dear life!

Tony

 

[oldBiker]

I have now rationalised the previous information, incorporating the changes by Mr Hailsham, to make it easier for me when I come to do the wiring on Friday.
Using the same notations as before, and the same pieces of kit, here are my conclusions....
Maybe you can confirm that all is OK............
I have left out the obvious earths

A) Boiler (B)
1...Permanent live to P (L)
2...Switched live to TB1
3...Neutral to P (N)

B)...Programmer (P)
N...to B3 and TB6
L...to B1
1...to TB2
2...nothing
3(HW)...to TB3
4(CH)...to TB5

C)...Thermostat (S)
1...to TB5
2...to TB4
3...to Earth
4...to TB6

D)...3 Port valve (V)
1...(blue)...TB6
2...(white)...TB4
3...(grey)...TB2
4...(orange)...TB1

Terminal Block (TB)
1...to B2/V4/CT3
2...to P1/V3/CT2
3...to P3/CT1
4...to S2/V2
5...to P4/S1
6...to V1/S4/P(N)
7...nothing
8...earth

Cylinder thermostat (CT)
1...red to TB3
2...yellow to TB2
3...black to TB1

My next step after getting the system working will be to incorporate a Randall 102E5 mini programmer, and a Honeywell T3630 room thermostat instead of my old programmer and room thermostat.
So any proposals for the next wiring step would also be appreciated.
Thanks to Mr Hailsham who has been first class with his advice and perseverance in the past, and I know lots of plumbers and others have been watching all the posts that we have been doing. I can assure you I would have been lost at sea without the advice gained from this site........
oldBiker

 

[D_Hailsham]

I have now rationalised the previous information, incorporating the changes by Mr Hailsham, to make it easier for me when I come to do the wiring on Friday.
Using the same notations as before, and the same pieces of kit, here are my conclusions....
Maybe you can confirm that all is OK............

Yes, your list is OK. But you only have to make a TWO changes:

1. Disconnect from TB2 the wire to P(N) and connect it to TB6
2. Disconnect from TB1 the wire to P1 and connect to TB2

All other wires stay exactly as they are.

My next step after getting the system working will be to incorporate a Randall 102E5 mini programmer, and a Honeywell T3630 room thermostat instead of my old programmer and room thermostat.

The Randall 102E5 is not suitable for your heating system as it does not have an HW OFF terminal. The T6360 thermostat is getting past its sell by date and you should be looking at digital thermostats.

If I was doing it, I would retain the ACL programmer just for hot water control and install a programmable thermostat, e.g one of the Honeywell CM900 series, to control the central heating.

 

[oldBiker]

OK. Got that. I will do the wiring mods when I am back home on Friday.
I will need (soon) to change the programmer, mainly because it is looking worse for wear (when switched on there is black shadowy line at the top, and occasionally, if tripped off for any reason it starts 'hunting', ie switches on and off constantly). Apart from that my wife thinks it looks 'old fashioned'. I agree she has a point, as it is located in our new kitchen in very prominent position!!! (besides, you can never do too much for a good woman)
So your advice on which programmer to purchase would be appreciated.
Combined with this if I choose a room thermostat from the Honeywell series CM 900. This is located in the large hall that we have, so again a digital stat would blend in fine.
Hopefully there will not be too many wiring changes required installing these two pieces of kit, but having said that we have already come along way with the wiring.
Regards.
old Biker