New Zealand

[JP_]

What if you approached the issue from the point of view that 'sport' was designed from a patriarchal viewpoint.
What if Olympic sport had been 'invented' or designed from a matriarchal stance?
Then sport wouldn't be about the higher, faster, stronger, etc. It would be more about stamina, lightweight, slender, grace, beauty, etc.

But it wasn't.
Although some parts are, such as women's artistic gymnastics, in fact, that is all. They do a few graceful and beautiful events, but it is mostly a test of strength and speed.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

No.

you are thinking to an error in classification. not a change.

have you ever owned a guinea-pig?

Did it change its sex?

Who decides when it's been a error, and when it's a change?
If the person affected feels like it's been an error, and medical evidence supports that, who's to claim that that is not the case?

I'm pretty sure that people can't simply decide to change sex, for a sporting competition, based on a whim, despite transam's ridiculous exaggerations about simply dressing up.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

But it wasn't.
Although some parts are, such as women's artistic gymnastics, in fact, that is all. They do a few graceful and beautiful events, but it is mostly a test of strength and speed.

Agreed, but the only reason why women cannot hope to compete with men in most sports, is because the majority of sports were designed by men, with male attributes in mind.
So the argument only applies due to the underlying preference designed into sport, by men.
Perhaps one of the attributes that males have, i.e. competitiveness, was the driving factor. And if it had been a matriarchal 'invention', competition would have been less obvious.

 

[JohnD]

A man is not a woman.

A man cannot become a woman.

Men should not compete with women in women's sports.

 

[JohnD]

Who decides when it's been a error, and when it's a change?

if you had owned a guinea-pig, you would know the answer to that.

 

[JP_]

Agreed, but the only reason why women cannot hope to compete with men in most sports, is because the majority of sports were designed by men, with male attributes in mind.
So the argument only applies due to the underlying preference designed into sport, by men.
Perhaps one of the attributes that males have, i.e. competitiveness, was the driving factor. And if it had been a matriarchal 'invention', competition would have been less obvious.

But that is not relevant. Today, women can compete in the same sports as men now, just not directly against men, for obvious reasons.
Early Olympic sports were designed to pit soldiers against each other to showcase the best fighters in the country. Men make better soldiers for the same reason that they make better athletes.

Anyway, women competed in the Heraean Games, held in Olympia, in the 6th century - men, or women who used to be men, were certainly not allowed.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

A man is not a woman.

A man cannot become a woman.

Men should not compete with women in women's sports.

But if a woman is fundamentally a woman, and has been incorrectly assigned as a man at birth, then they are, and always have been a woman.
If a woman, who has been incorrectly assigned as a male, form birth, decides to correct that error, and officially emerges as a woman, after medical examinations, and the legal process, then they can compete in women's sports. That's not just my opinion, that's the decision of the relevant committee.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Anyway, women competed in the Heraean Games, held in Olympia, in the 6th century - men, or women who used to be men, were certainly not allowed.

But there was no tests required to assess who was male and who was female.
So can you be confident that no 'men' competed in women's sports?

 

[JP_]

But there was no tests required to assess who was male and who was female.
So can you be confident that no 'men' competed in women's sports?

They competed with one breast exposed, that would normally be enough.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

They competed with one breast exposed, that would normally be enough.

That must have been damned uncomfortable in the running events.

 

[JohnD]

But if a woman is fundamentally a woman, and has been incorrectly assigned as a man at birth, then they are, and always have been a woman.
If a woman, who has been incorrectly assigned as a male, form birth, decides to correct that error, and officially emerges as a woman, after medical examinations, and the legal process, then they can compete in women's sports. That's not just my opinion, that's the decision of the relevant committee.

Your diversion is irrelevant to the purported transition of a man into a woman, which is the issue in this thread.

What a shame you have never owned a Guinea-pig.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Your diversion is irrelevant to the purported transition of a man into a woman, which is the issue in this thread.

What a shame you have never owned a Guinea-pig.

If someone was born with indefinite sex anatomy, and had been assigned the male gender at birth, and then later in life, decide to correct that error, and undergo whatever medical procedure is necessary to accord them the female anatomy, then their transition is complete, even though they have always been fundamentally female.

We don't know the medical history of the athlete involved in this thread, or at least I don't. I assume you don't either.
I would imagine that the people involved in the appropriate tests for the olympic committee did have access the her medical records, and made their decision based partly or wholly on those records.

I have no desire, and never have had any desire, to own a guinea pig, nor a hamster, nor a mouse, nor a rat, nor any kind of small furry animal. So I don't miss it, and therefore it isn't a shame.

 

[fillyboy]

 

[JohnD]

then their transition is complete, even though they have always been fundamentally female.

if they have always been female, it is not a change or a transition.

A common story:

Mrs Scroggins bought a couple of young guinea-pigs for her children. She didn't want the house overrun with baby piglets so she bought two females.

A few months later her house was overrun by baby piglets.

Did one of the guinea-pigs change sex?

Or had it been incorrectly described at time of purchase?

 

[transam]

Japanese footballer Kumi Yokohama has said “they” are transgender

the 27 year old played for Japan at the 2019 woman’s World Cup

transgender people in Japan must have there reproductive organs removed to have gender recognised on official documents

on a general point
they should also be referred to as

they

not he or she