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Nitrous oxide
- Thread starter Plugus_Maximus
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david and julie
I didn't see the programme but would have thought it easier to win the lottery than insure a car with the above. Especially an after market conversion. You would probably get fed up with continually rebuilding or replacing engines. In stock or drag racing the above would not really matter. As regards 5th gear would you like to buy a car after they've been playing in it! They should stop their ego trips and show the type of cars ordinary people buy, and drive them the way we do too!
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david and julie said:
According to the programme apparently not
Well maybe for young drivers ....david and julie said:
No I wouldn't but then you don't have to 'buy' the car to win the competition. Just pay a quid.
david and julie said:
I'll be honest and say I can't imagine watching 5th gear if they demo'ed boring MPV's and economy cars in a rush hour traffic jam on the M25. However, each to their own.
The whole point was they fitted Nitros Oxide to a car ordinary people do drive and enlightened the population to the possibilities of nitrous oxide, the legalities and it's possible use. Used sensibly it makes driving both more enjoyable and safer. The main demonstration was to illustrate how it could overtake a long moving vehicle more quickly ... the NSX demo was just for comparison. Though the opposite is equally true if chaffs start using it in their Saxo's but I would imagine anyone under 20 would be uninsureable for this anyway.
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Plugus_Maximus said:
I have had it installed in my last 3 cars. It has always been legal aswell.
It is a brilliant bit of kit, a bottle is about £15 to have refilled, (well was then).
I was a memner of the Blackbird forum a year or so ago. There was a guy who had it installed on his Honda Blackbird. Never seemed to have amy in though, as when he filled it up, the temptation to have fun with it was......well enough to empty it pretty quick.
If anyone is going to get a NOS kit fitted, I wouldn't try a DIY kit, as it is easy to get things wrong. Getting things wrong with NOS can cause a big bang..........
Fitted properly it can actually be better for your engine in the long run.
Hmmm, might have to go shopping for another kit...........
D
david and julie
I agree that watching a traffic jam on the M25 on telly would be boring, I am not trying to be a killjoy but TV presenters pedalling very old technology, could give the boy racer types the wrong idea. (I'm not suggesting your a boy racer).
BOBSP...... how did you go on with the insurance of your cars, did you tell them? how much did it go up? In what way does such a large power increase help your engine. Were any modifications made to brakes/tyres/suspension etc to cope with the increased power?
I'm all for enjoying your car, but to me a proper conversion would be the likes of FWL-Engineers Mondeo, in the thread these letters really belong.
Still if you do go ahead I hope you enjoy it! Just watch those cameras eh!
Good Look Dave
BOBSP...... how did you go on with the insurance of your cars, did you tell them? how much did it go up? In what way does such a large power increase help your engine. Were any modifications made to brakes/tyres/suspension etc to cope with the increased power?
I'm all for enjoying your car, but to me a proper conversion would be the likes of FWL-Engineers Mondeo, in the thread these letters really belong.
Still if you do go ahead I hope you enjoy it! Just watch those cameras eh!
Good Look Dave
Good thing about NOS is that it is switched in and out. With such a tune-up as FWL is planning you end up with 15mpg whether you are razzing down a countrylane or pootling to the supermarket. With NOS then you have a pleasant 150bhp engine for daily duty, then when you want fun you have an engine that can develop 250bhp (where required).
I believe NOS systems can be fitted to switch in only when the throttle is fully depressed, i.e. no "Gone in Sixty Seconds"-style red button required.
If you have a turbocharged or supercharged engine then the NOS acts like a charge cooler and cools the incoming air.
I agree with Bobsp that you need a professional install.
I doubt very much that Fifth Gear has caused a brace of boy racers to get a NOS bottle installed in their Citroen Saxo to increase the likelihoods of them getting wrapped round a lamppost. Anyone so interested in such things already knows about them as they almost certainly read Max Power-style magazines.
I think I would prefer to start off with a sportscar in the first place (I shall have my TVR Cerbera!), but there are people out there who prefer the way a Vauxhall Nova looks. And there are even some who think that a Ford Focus handles well... takes all sorts.
I believe NOS systems can be fitted to switch in only when the throttle is fully depressed, i.e. no "Gone in Sixty Seconds"-style red button required.
If you have a turbocharged or supercharged engine then the NOS acts like a charge cooler and cools the incoming air.
I agree with Bobsp that you need a professional install.
I doubt very much that Fifth Gear has caused a brace of boy racers to get a NOS bottle installed in their Citroen Saxo to increase the likelihoods of them getting wrapped round a lamppost. Anyone so interested in such things already knows about them as they almost certainly read Max Power-style magazines.
I think I would prefer to start off with a sportscar in the first place (I shall have my TVR Cerbera!), but there are people out there who prefer the way a Vauxhall Nova looks. And there are even some who think that a Ford Focus handles well... takes all sorts.
D
david and julie
Good point about fuel consumption Adam.
I used to collect TVR's from the factory at Blackpool and deliver them to Manchester, it was mainly by transporter (new ones) but we used to drive the used ones.
If you fancy a Cerbera make sure you have a decent test drive for at least an hour or so. I found them very claustrophobic, they are also awkward to get in and out of, and I'm only five feet five! air con is a must as well, That beautiful unit upfront generates a lot of heat! Lovely looking car though! and rapid to.
If you get the chance try a cerbera (cheaper I should think) or a griffin, especially a 500. I always thought they were the best! Performance wise they are all fantastic. But you do need a DEEP pockets!
Heres hoping, maybe one day.
Good Luck Dave
I used to collect TVR's from the factory at Blackpool and deliver them to Manchester, it was mainly by transporter (new ones) but we used to drive the used ones.
If you fancy a Cerbera make sure you have a decent test drive for at least an hour or so. I found them very claustrophobic, they are also awkward to get in and out of, and I'm only five feet five! air con is a must as well, That beautiful unit upfront generates a lot of heat! Lovely looking car though! and rapid to.
If you get the chance try a cerbera (cheaper I should think) or a griffin, especially a 500. I always thought they were the best! Performance wise they are all fantastic. But you do need a DEEP pockets!
Heres hoping, maybe one day.
Good Luck Dave
D
david and julie
Sorry Adam made a typo, meant to say try a chimaera or Griffin.
Any would be OK though!
Good Luck Dave
Any would be OK though!
Good Luck Dave
david and julie said:
I came across a website a year or two back, this guy keeping tabs on the costs of running his TVR Cerbera... wasn't cheap! It seemed to be constantly breaking down but I suppose it could have been a bad one: I have seen used ones from about £17K, but you just KNOW it is too good to be true at that price.
Being 6'2" might mean I won't fit in one, but I guess it is worth a try at least!
Breezer: yes, it is laughing gas. In fact, in an old episode of Quantum Leap, Sam is a dentist in the 1950s and wins a drag race by fitting a bottle of laughing gas into his car. (I am such a geek
)Nitrous provides a greater concentration of oxygen than atmospheric air alone. The reason you use nitrous and not just pure oxygen is that the nitrogen helps prevent premature ignition (detonation). Using pure oxygen instead could melt the inside of your engine (it could produce blast furnace temperatures, not good!)
D
david and julie
Adam...... As I said fabulous cars but a bit tempremental. We used to find it was mainly the batteries going flat. To be fair to TVR, a lot of the owners were professional people who used them as second cars, (when it was sunny) they were sometimes left standing for ages.The ones used daily were better. Makes you wonder about low mileage cars though! It would be interesting to see if you could get in one! why not go an have test drive? they don't charge for it. Mind you, it could make you dislike your own car!
Good Luck, Dave
Good Luck, Dave
I would love to take a test drive. Only problem is, being 23 I doubt many dealers would actually take me seriously! If I was a TVR dealer I don't think I would let me take a test drive unless I showed up with a banker's draft as proof I was serious... I wonder how many people take test drives in cars they have no intention of buying each year?
I will give it another 2 years because at 25 the insurance prices take another step down (provided I manage to keep claims-free with a clean licence until then!).
Good to hear the daily drivers are more reliable, I would use it as such as I can't really justify having 2 cars. I only do 8000 miles a year so fuel costs wouldn't be TOO bad. A couple of guys at work use a Tamora and a Griffith as daily drivers so that is yet more in TVR's favour. And the value for money seems great on them: so much performance compared to similarly priced cars, plus they get more attention than Porsche Boxster's in my opinion (not that I would be buying it for the attention of course )
I will give it another 2 years because at 25 the insurance prices take another step down (provided I manage to keep claims-free with a clean licence until then!).
Good to hear the daily drivers are more reliable, I would use it as such as I can't really justify having 2 cars. I only do 8000 miles a year so fuel costs wouldn't be TOO bad. A couple of guys at work use a Tamora and a Griffith as daily drivers so that is yet more in TVR's favour. And the value for money seems great on them: so much performance compared to similarly priced cars, plus they get more attention than Porsche Boxster's in my opinion (not that I would be buying it for the attention of course
)Sorry took so long to relpy, Mrs just had a baby, well on Friday.
I had my last on my Mondeo ST200 Here I was an active member or fordmondeo.org then.
I sold it last year as it was not much good at pulling a boat.
What ALL novices and many "self proclaimed experts" don't "know" or "realise" is that MOST engine wear occurs on "start up" (as any oil company will tell you), because there is NO OIL between the moving parts.
Point 2)
The second aspect of wear (for some engine components), is engine speed (rpm).
Obviously if an engine was run at 1,000rpm for a given length of time it would have 1/10th of the wear that an engine ran at 10,000rpm would have.
Most conventional tuning INCREASES the rpm at which peak power is achieved so if you use that power you will increase engine wear.
Point 3)
Nitrous is the ONLY tuning product that creates such a MASSIVE increase in "torque" and the maximum "torque" is generated at LOW to MID rpm.
Consequently if you wanted to extend engine life (REDUCE WEAR), you could do this and increase performance (at the same time), by using a Nitrous system and changing gear
at a lower rpm than without gas.
Used this way NITROUS use will result in REDUCED ENGINE WEAR.
Point 4)
The components responsible for MOST WEAR in an engine are the camshaft and followers, because they are made from the hardest materials in the engine and are subjected to the highest frictional loads / forces.
They wear at a high rate (frequently being the first major parts to need replacing).
The VERY hard particles that are produced by the wearing of these components get pumped around the engine causing accelerated wear in parts like the bottom end bearings, pistons etc.
The best way to reduce camshaft wear is to run the engine at higher rpm because the cam lobes and followers are not in contact for as long as when running at low rpm.
The faster you accelerate the engine to high rpm the shorter the time that the followers are in contact with the cam lobes.
Guess what, Nitrous accelerates (reduces) the rpm rise time and consequently reduces cam & follower wear.
Point 5)
The final BUT MOST IMPORTANT point that 99.9% of people seem to forget or overlook, is that Nitrous is ONLY used for a few SECONDS at a time. So even if ALL the
above was RUBBISH, this very short use period would have such a microscopic effect on wear that it would NOT be worth considering (which is why I don't make a big thing about Nitrous actually REDUCING engine wear).
I drive my car to work and back every day which takes about 1 hour. Lets assume that wear is consistent under all
conditions (even though it's NOT). I'll probably use the Nitrous system 5 or 6 times
for about 3 to 5 seconds at a time (maximum use 30 seconds).
So in a journey that lasts 3,600 seconds the gas is used for just 30 seconds that equates to less than 1%.
The more you use your car the smaller the percentage of time the Nitrous is used.
Even if Nitrous increases wear (WHICH IT DOES NOT), a maximum of 1% does not seem worth mentioning to me!
I had my last on my Mondeo ST200 Here I was an active member or fordmondeo.org then.
I sold it last year as it was not much good at pulling a boat.
Yes I did.david and julie said:
Went up by about £100david and julie said:
Point 1),david and julie said:
What ALL novices and many "self proclaimed experts" don't "know" or "realise" is that MOST engine wear occurs on "start up" (as any oil company will tell you), because there is NO OIL between the moving parts.
Point 2)
The second aspect of wear (for some engine components), is engine speed (rpm).
Obviously if an engine was run at 1,000rpm for a given length of time it would have 1/10th of the wear that an engine ran at 10,000rpm would have.
Most conventional tuning INCREASES the rpm at which peak power is achieved so if you use that power you will increase engine wear.
Point 3)
Nitrous is the ONLY tuning product that creates such a MASSIVE increase in "torque" and the maximum "torque" is generated at LOW to MID rpm.
Consequently if you wanted to extend engine life (REDUCE WEAR), you could do this and increase performance (at the same time), by using a Nitrous system and changing gear
at a lower rpm than without gas.
Used this way NITROUS use will result in REDUCED ENGINE WEAR.
Point 4)
The components responsible for MOST WEAR in an engine are the camshaft and followers, because they are made from the hardest materials in the engine and are subjected to the highest frictional loads / forces.
They wear at a high rate (frequently being the first major parts to need replacing).
The VERY hard particles that are produced by the wearing of these components get pumped around the engine causing accelerated wear in parts like the bottom end bearings, pistons etc.
The best way to reduce camshaft wear is to run the engine at higher rpm because the cam lobes and followers are not in contact for as long as when running at low rpm.
The faster you accelerate the engine to high rpm the shorter the time that the followers are in contact with the cam lobes.
Guess what, Nitrous accelerates (reduces) the rpm rise time and consequently reduces cam & follower wear.
Point 5)
The final BUT MOST IMPORTANT point that 99.9% of people seem to forget or overlook, is that Nitrous is ONLY used for a few SECONDS at a time. So even if ALL the
above was RUBBISH, this very short use period would have such a microscopic effect on wear that it would NOT be worth considering (which is why I don't make a big thing about Nitrous actually REDUCING engine wear).
I drive my car to work and back every day which takes about 1 hour. Lets assume that wear is consistent under all
conditions (even though it's NOT). I'll probably use the Nitrous system 5 or 6 times
for about 3 to 5 seconds at a time (maximum use 30 seconds).
So in a journey that lasts 3,600 seconds the gas is used for just 30 seconds that equates to less than 1%.
The more you use your car the smaller the percentage of time the Nitrous is used.
Even if Nitrous increases wear (WHICH IT DOES NOT), a maximum of 1% does not seem worth mentioning to me!
Just like any tuning mods, the engine has to be suitably rated to cope with the power.
Nitrous doesn't increase power by itself. It is an oxidiser, so it lets you burn more petrol in the cylinder at once. More petrol burnt equals more power. However, making a bigger explosion WILL increase wear on pistons, head gasket, valves, con rods, engine bearings. But no more than if you increase the power by the same amount with "normal" means, plus like has already been mentioned you only do it for short periods anyway.
Take a typical family hatch: 1600cc, 100bhp. Now, if I fitted a 50bhp nitrous kit to it then that car would now be putting out rougly 150bhp, and the engine would take the short bursts of extra stress quite readily. However, if I had watched "Fast and the Furious" a few too many times and fitted a 300bhp nitrous kit, the engine would not work particularly well. For one, the management unit would probably kill fuel injection as the oxygen sensor would be running haywire. But assuming that the engine took it and started injecting the correct amount of fuel to burn in that amount of oxygen to give 400bhp, the resultant explosions in the cylinders would blow the engine quite quickly.
What I am saying is, nitrous is great because it can give you a car which is good for everyday driving as well as giving you plenty of power for country lane overtaking, cheaply. However, it must be remembered that any engine must be able to cope with the power it is putting out whether it is fuelled with petrol+atmospheric air, diesel+turbocharged air, or methanol+nitrous oxide.
Has anyone here tried nitrous on a diesel car?
Nitrous doesn't increase power by itself. It is an oxidiser, so it lets you burn more petrol in the cylinder at once. More petrol burnt equals more power. However, making a bigger explosion WILL increase wear on pistons, head gasket, valves, con rods, engine bearings. But no more than if you increase the power by the same amount with "normal" means, plus like has already been mentioned you only do it for short periods anyway.
Take a typical family hatch: 1600cc, 100bhp. Now, if I fitted a 50bhp nitrous kit to it then that car would now be putting out rougly 150bhp, and the engine would take the short bursts of extra stress quite readily. However, if I had watched "Fast and the Furious" a few too many times and fitted a 300bhp nitrous kit, the engine would not work particularly well. For one, the management unit would probably kill fuel injection as the oxygen sensor would be running haywire. But assuming that the engine took it and started injecting the correct amount of fuel to burn in that amount of oxygen to give 400bhp, the resultant explosions in the cylinders would blow the engine quite quickly.
What I am saying is, nitrous is great because it can give you a car which is good for everyday driving as well as giving you plenty of power for country lane overtaking, cheaply. However, it must be remembered that any engine must be able to cope with the power it is putting out whether it is fuelled with petrol+atmospheric air, diesel+turbocharged air, or methanol+nitrous oxide.
Has anyone here tried nitrous on a diesel car?
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