I agree with your comments PED, so when someone who knows nothing about plumbers or their charges comes here seeking advice, nice of you to give it, but don't ram it down their throats and implicitly accuse them of being idiots. Otherwise, what is the point of such forums and why do you bother wasting your time replying to 'these idiots' ! There is obviously nothing in the world that you don't have experience of and therefore wouldn't get caught out on, or is it in your van by day, forum by night = know everything about your world.............