Not sure if fire-place has fire-bricks. What are the risks?

[d000hg]

Our Victorian house has an open fire-place in a reception room that has not been used for decades but was never blocked up at the top or bottom. It is assumed the flue is in good condition since others were inspected and cleaned, but we will get it checked out before use.

Despite the surround seemingly still being in place from when it was used, it has been made decorative i.e. we found the tiled hearth intact under a carpet, and it seems they put in a false brick back (as it is very shallow) and painted it. This looks to be maybe 20 years ago.

I am looking to have it renovated but am curious to light a fire in it as the hearth and grate remain. My only concern is the false bricked back as obviously fires are supposed to have fire-proof render, fire-bricks, etc. Is the reason for this to stop the bricks being damaged, or for safety?
If the former, I couldn't care less if the bricks crumble since I will be removing them. But we've all heard about how bricks and stones can explode in campfires... is this a risk here or can I safely light a fire?

Minor query - if the fireplace was never closed off is it subject to regs or classed as existing despite not being used for a long time?

 

[blup]

Can you post a pic?

The condition of the flue and chimney should be checked as you say, it also makes sense to rebuild the hearth and clay fire back to meet to current regulations, especially as yours are not as originally installed!

Carbon monoxide can escape into upper bedrooms.

And as you say the chimney will need sweeping.

Blup

 

[d000hg]

I'll try to get one. Yes aware of the need to put CO detectors upstairs but good to be reminded.

The proposed plan is to fit a tiny wood-burner - it's my office where I work during the day and we have free wood - hence my thought is whether I can safely use the fireplace in the interim but couldn't care less if it damages bricks. The stove might require taking the whole surround out anyway.

 

[blup]

A stove requires building regulation (prior) approval although a HETAS registered installer is authorised to do the work.

Blup

 

[d000hg]

Yep, aware that fitting a new stove requires approval. My understanding is it can be signed off if installed by a non-HETAS person (sort of like getting your Part P electrician to sign off DIY or non-certified electrician's work) or that one can do virtually all the work oneself (or get someone else to)

 

[stuart45]

You can install a wood burner yourself and go through Building Control and they can sign it off.
However, not all LA's will sign off this and expect HETAS to do it. You need to check first.

 

[d000hg]

Cheers. I think I thought a HETAS guy could sign off from inspecting the work - but you're saying they can either do the work themselves or I have to get the LA to do it? A DIY-experienced mate got the fitter to do the bare minimum and tell him what to do for the rest so I might go that route.

Back to the fire, anyone got any concerns about laying a fire against potentially regular painted bricks? It's not going to shatter, is all I really want to know.

 

[stuart45]

Ordinary bricks tend to crack and spall over a period of time, as the constant heating and rapid cooling causes fractures in them. In the kiln the cooling is controlled to prevent this.

 

[lostinthelight]

I would bypass the trouble and expense of intrim open fire , your going to need a liner eventually so just as well drop one down now and fit your burner?...have you a picture of the opening?

 

[d000hg]

I don't necessarily need a liner. And if I do, it will be several weeks until it could all be done (my chimney pots are 50-60 foot above ground so a scaffold is needed)... but it's cold now

 

[lostinthelight]

I don't necessarily need a liner. And if I do, it will be several weeks until it could all be done (my chimney pots are 50-60 foot above ground so a scaffold is needed)... but it's cold now

I would have thought that if indeed your pots are that high you would need a liner and posibly an insulated one at that. With a small efficient wood stove, the gasses will be so cold by the time they gets that high they could struggle to make it out the top

 

[d000hg]

That's interesting, nobody had ever mentioned the temperature of the gases as a factor before, only the condition of the original flue. I can see where you're coming from but is that the principle on how chimneys work? When the chimney sweep inspects it he either makes a tiny fire from bits of newspaper or sets off a smoke-bomb and goes outside to look - in neither case is any significant heat generated?

So if anyone has references to information on thermal gradient I'd be most interested. My local stove store insists "you have to have a liner (and we'll do it for £XXXX" but an accredited sweep (I forget which accreditation) who checked another chimney in our house said you only need a liner if the flue isn't up to the job and reckoned that one was just fine. Hard to get unbiased, trustworthy sources sometimes

 

[lostinthelight]

That's interesting, nobody had ever mentioned the temperature of the gases as a factor before, only the condition of the original flue

Plenty of reading on the net , just one to start with:
https://www.stovesonline.co.uk/chimney-tar-soot.html

 

[stuart45]

Most stove fitters prefer to fit a new liner, rather than use an existing flue as the stove tends to burn more efficiently like this.
To test a flue properly the top needs to be blocked at the top and bottom to make enough pressure to check for any leaks.

 

[d000hg]

I'll try to get a couple out to quote though one told me he'd happily not fit a liner... It could be he was the cowboy rather than the Ashlee one

Might just go the open fire route this winter... This sounds expensive!