nvq qualification

[sijaysee]

hi
i did a level 2 tech cert a couple of years ago. I was looking into the fast track method and almost went down that route before calling my local college who convinced me that their way was the way to go and how could i possibly learn everything in 6 weeks etc etc. So i did the college course and so now i have a level 2 tech cert in plumbing. Well thats great but i want to progress now and do the level 3. I therefore need to do the rest of course which is on the job assesments to qualify with an nvq. This is where i have a problem. I am in the building trade and have been for over 25 years. I am a qualified electrician and want to get the plumbing qualification too. The job that i do means that we install/alter and maintain plumbing systems all the time as we do loft conversions mostly The problem i have is that im self employed and the college have rejected my application to finish the nvq. I work full time for the company although im self employed and i have tax deducted but technically i am still self employed. The person i work for is qualified plumber but doesnt want to make me employed which is perfectly understandable and tbh i dont want to be employed either so what can i do? It seems that the only thing holding me back is my non employed status and i find this ridiculous when i could do a fast track course and become qualified. Also i feel that when i started the course the college could of at least warned us all of the situation properly. I think out of the 20 or so of us only 4 were doing an apprenticeship and i paid for the course which as i see it was a waste of time. I wonder what you think and whether there is another way i can go with this?

cheers

simon

 

[Dan Robinson]

For a start I would be removing "fast track" from your lexicon.

Good luck though.

 

[Agile]

As far as I am aware there are now virtually no colleged offering the full NVQ any more because they had a problem with managing the practical assessments and so few students were on an apprenticeship.

I thought that it was still possible but obviously you need someone to be working with who is fully qualified and normally someone with an assessors qualification. Why does your employer not figure in this ???

I did the asssessors course at the NW London college but never managed to complete the practical side as the staff who should have been helping me were going through a crisis over the situation.


But you have not explained exactly you want the plumbing qualifications? Do you collect certificates?

Tony

 

[sijaysee]

Thanks for your replies both of you. Firstly i didnt want to go the fast track way and im not sure what the problem is with referring to it as that? Tony, i have some plumbing experience previously but not enough to call myself a plumber which is why i chose to do the course i.e to learn more. Im not sure where wanting to collect certificates really comes into it? My employer is qualified as i said in my previous post but the problem is my self employed staus. It seems that the college only accept employed people to be able to do an nvq. I want to go on obviously to get more experience and go into renewable energy which is something that the company do atm but i think you need a level 3 nvq to do a lot of these courses. At the end of the day all i am trying to do is make a living and move on and i am being held up and i was wondering if anyone else had found a similar problem? No disrespect to the younger lads on the tech cert course that i did but i expect that most of them will never make it in the trade and at least 4 of them dropped out of a course that i found very doable and so it frustrates me that someone like me who has a clue is being denied a chance to get on

 

[Agile]

All that you have explained is that you want to call yourself a plumber!

In the UK anyone can call themself a plumber! So just call yourself a plumber if it makes yourself happy.

I would ever call myself a plumber because then people would want me to do plumbing which I hate!

Reading between the lines it seems you may be trying to "prove yourself" to your employer because you want him to give you more plumbing work?

Merely having a certificate is unlikely to change that as plumbers are assessed on their practical abilities and not on bits of paper.

I dont see how you are going to progress with your aims without the assistance of your employer!

Tony

 

[sijaysee]

Tony
i realise that anyone can call themselves a plumber but you are missing the point. I am trying to better myself as a plumber and have learned a lot doing the level 2 tech cert but i want to move on now and do the level 3 and eventually be able to do gas and become gas safe etc. Now to be able to do that i need the nvq also and as i see it i cant unless im employed and i am self employed. I am not out to get more plumbing work as we work as a team and all i want to do is complete an nvq but being self employed. Technically i dont have an employer in the colleges eyes and i wondered if it is just a technicality with the way they fund courses? I just dont see what difference it makes whether im employed or self employed and whether there is another way to go? As i said before i want to go down the gas route and also ground/air source heat pumps and solar thermal etc.

cheers

simon

 

[Agile]

You dont need to have an NVQ in plumbng to train in gas as long as you are working in an "associated" field.

Its easier to do that with the expensive short courses as they seem to know how to bend the rules.

But many in the trade dont like them and call them Short Course Cowboys with no practical experience.

But you seem to be missing the central point that any "proper" plumber is expected to have been working as a plumber for a few years to gain experience. Its not a course based job its all hands on.

Tony

 

[sijaysee]

Tony
thanks for that info its so hard getting a definative answer about the way to go around things to get where you want. Firstly im not into doing things quick and im not sure why you keep bringing this up, im well aware that it takes a few years to become good at anything and i have already done a 2 year course as well as been working in the trade. I was looking to do more training in college as well as what i do on site. I dont really care if it takes another 5 years its just that i have hit a brick wall with it. So in my case then is it possible to go on to do gas and renewables etc bearing in mind that the people i work with are not gas qualified? Or is it a case of going to work with people who are qualified gas/ renewable ? And who is it that decides whether someone is competant when you have already said that nvq qualifications dont matter? I mean if go to a college and say i want to do a gas course is it just a case of it being ok as long as the person i work with has his gas ticket?

 

[Agile]

In most cases colleges ( esp. expensive private ones ) want people on their courses and seem to be able to choose to bend the rules a little.

But as a very minimum a letter from your employer is likely to be required.

I dont know how the rules are interpreted now but at one time an electrician was consided to be a related trade!

I dont see why self employed versus employed is a major factor but it could be that you were only talking to someone at the college and not providing real evidence from your employer of what you do.

I think the solution will lay in the hands of your employer. You have not said much about him and I wonder if you are hiding some problems in this respect? Perhaps he wants you as an electrician and not as a plumber?

No one else seems to want to comment but perhaps some others wll express their views about your situation.

Do you think that plumbers earn more than electricians?

Tony

 

[sijaysee]

Hi Tony
no my "employer" is also a good friend that i have worked with/for over the last 15 years. We are both qualified electricians and he is a member of CIPHE which gave him membership as a plumber when he proved his competance as he doesnt have formal qualifications. Its not about earning more as a plumber compared to an electrician its more that i branch out and we do a lot of plumbing too. I actually met with the college officer in charge of the signing up process regarding apprenticeships and he told me that it should be ok as long as i was covered for insurance purposes even though i wasnt actually employed. I signed up as an apprentice just before xmas and then my "employer" recieved a call from funding side of the college asking if i was actually employed and for a paye number. Obviously he couldnt give that and a few days ago my signing up officer rang to say that my application has been rejected. So as you can see it was more than me just throwing some ideas about with someone from college! They have rejected me not for any other reason than because i dont have a paye number!

 

[Nige F]

No one else seems to want to comment but perhaps some others wll express their views about your situation.

Do you think that plumbers earn more than electricians?

Tony

@ your comment about being a plumber, Tony . I actually enjoyed it very much , though in today`s situation re. boilers it`s better to approach from your background . As to the OP I have a feeling the college , being awash with bureauracracy tend to agree with HMRC about self employed status and continued work for one employer

 

[sijaysee]

Im not sure what difference it makes to whether im working in the plumbing industry as an employed or self employed person?

 

[newbuildinstaller]

I can see what Agile is saying. You are self employed and no doubt want to stay that way.

The only use a NVQ level 3 would be would be to get another job.

You can buy the NVQ l3 course guide book and learn that without going to college.

Experience is best though, I did a full 4 year apprenticeship but learned 1000x more at work than college.

Just keep plumbing for customers and each time try and build on your knowledge and SLOWLY move out of your comfort zone.

To get a the gas qualifications you will need (or did when I did it 5 years ago) 70hours supervised and signed off gas work on site (which would req you working for a company or a friendly plumber that wouldnt mind training the competition.

I wouldnt bother with solar thermal etc unless you are MCS reg (which you never will be) as only MCS reg people can offer the grants which make that massive install costs worthwhile. You would also need a BEPEC in solar thermal and one in Unvented water storage to fit solar panels

 

[sijaysee]

The solar is something we do a lot of and the company are actually MCS accredited. Im not sure why you would think that we never would be MCS? My employer has done his unvented cylinder and his partner has his solar thermal ticket which allows us to fit them.

 

[newbuildinstaller]

The solar is something we do a lot of and the company are actually MCS accredited. Im not sure why you would think that we never would be MCS? My employer has done his unvented cylinder and his partner has his solar thermal ticket which allows us to fit them.

I said you wont be MCS (maybe should have said are unlikely to be) and YOU arnt your mate/employer may be you arnt.

Are you self employed or working for your mate/employer?.

You are not allowed to subby full time for somebody THEY MUST employ you as the taxman wont be happy.

If you do work for the fella why wont he help you get any quals as this can only help him with his business??