Odd 4 inchs of concrete/cement on first floor external wall

[ToastyToes]

I recently bought a house which I am renovating. The previous owner was a bit of a cowboy builder I've been told from neighbours and witnessed myself.

The upstairs front bedroom has around 3-4 inches of what looks like cement or concrete render from the external wall. Photos below.

The same wall downstairs in the hallway bulges quite significantly. The previous owner installed a wall tie rod at first floor level just outside the front room to prevent further movement.

I don't know whether the bulge came before or after the wall upstairs had 4 inches of solid concrete stuck to it.

I had a building surveyor look over the house before we bought it and suggested the movement of the wall is progressive but advised to check for issues underground. We have done and there is no signs of damp, subsidence or cracked drain pipes.

Any thoughts or reasons as to why this render is on the wall? Could be be causing the bulge or keeping the wall structurally secure?

 

[^woody^]

3-4 inches

Are you a fisherman?

 

[Nige F]

3 - 4 cm

 

[ToastyToes]

Are you a fisherman?

The photo doesn't do it justice as the render is straight and then angled.

It is 3-4 inches.

 

[^woody^]

OK then, are your fingers 5" long?

That gap looks less than the width of that joist

 

[ToastyToes]

OK then, are your fingers 5" long?

That gap looks less than the width of that joist

Jesus Christ the gap from the visible brick on the right of the image you refer to and the joist is 4 inches.

 

[stuart45]

If the wall was bulging out, he might have built up the coats of render to straighten out the wall on the inside.

 

[^woody^]

If the wall was bulging out, he might have built up the coats of render to straighten out the wall on the inside.

But conveniently put the first joist [alledgedly] 4" in from the wall to allow for [supposedly] 4" of render at some later date?

 

[stuart45]

That's what you call great foresight. I always build the inner skin with a 4 inch belly inwards to allow for it moving out.

 

[ToastyToes]

But conveniently put the first joist [alledgedly] 4" in from the wall to allow for [supposedly] 4" of render at some later date?

121 year old joists.. I dont think the builder and the previous owner knew each other.

 

[KenGMac]

OK I am Confused?

I take it the wall is bulging outwards away from the joists?

Did the Engineer you engaged mention "Lateral Stability"? and also did he mention using Helli-ties to hold the wall in its present position.?

What type of "wall tie rods" were installed? were they external and do they just run horizontally?

Is the wall a cavity wall or solid? [old] 9 inch

Ken

 

[ToastyToes]

OK I am Confused?

I take it the wall is bulging outwards away from the joists?

Did the Engineer you engaged mention "Lateral Stability"? and also did he mention using Helli-ties to hold the wall in its present position.?

What type of "wall tie rods" were installed? were they external and do they just run horizontally?

Is the wall a cavity wall or solid? [old] 9 inch

Ken

Hi Ken. It was a building surveyor, not an SE.

He didn't offer any solutions as he was only a surveyor.

The wall tie rod is similar to the one in this photo. It goes through 3/4 joists, not noggings. It is roughly 24mm thick. https://www.protectahome.co.uk/protectmedia/uploads/Bow-Ties-through-Noggins.jpg

There is a 30x30 steel X on the external wall connected to the rod.

The wall is 9 inch solid.

 

[ToastyToes]

I just found a photo on my phone from the ground floor looking up. This is actually below the landing upstairs outside the bedroom. I am not sure how far up the render goes as the loft conversion staircase above these joists.

 

[KenGMac]

ToastyToes, good evening again.

OK, IMO the gable tie rods unless they are going right the way across the property to be tied externally at the other side are not installed correctly?

Why? because, the rational is that the unsupported very high thin solid wall is getting no benefit of support from the joists. the threaded rod has been pushed through, the object is to have these rods bore themselves into and through the joist so that the [best called] monococque system of joists and flooring attached, plus noggins or strutting will withstand the gable bulging away from the house, to simply bore holes and push in some threaded bar is [bluntly] useless, the wall is not being restrained in any way and will continue to bulge out. But if a threaded bar had been bored into and through several joists then the combined stability of several joists + flooring + noggins + strutting can and at times does halt the outward movement of the wall.

A more [shall I call it "modern"] system can be found if you have a look @ Helifix web site, there system is small high tensile bars which are bored into several joists, worth a look??

Difficult to see but?? because it appears the concrete is adhering to the joist, there appears to be a gap between the concrete and the brickwork?? am I correct?? if so then wall could? I stress Could still be moving outwards. This outward movement may have ceased? but the only way to check is to instruct a vertical level [bulge] monitoring exercise [not cheap]

Did your Building Surveyor mention any of the above??

Ken

 

[tomfe]

The 'render' in the last picture is just whats dropped on the plaster board/laths from above.
If it's 4" in the middle but only 1/2" at each end the bricks moved out.

If it's 4" all along and the house has not fallen down then the walls not moved.

Just for us here in internet land stick a rule or tape measure under the render so we can see the 4"s you are on about.

A lot of old properties are 'bodged' to hide something that was there originally.