Off peak storage heaters swap

[elitedawid]

My flat has storage heaters, 2 of which have broke down and my landlord replaced them with standard panel heaters, new heaters only work at off peak times which makes them useless, the electrician that installed the heaters advised we need to contact out supplier to change the off peak circuits to be 24h. we had an engineer come out to our property from the suppliers just to be told they can't do anything as the person who installed the heaters simply connected them to the wrong circuit.

Can anyone advise what actually needs to be done this stuation and who needs to do their part? the electrician or the suppliers?

We have also made the inquiry to change all heaters to the same type but until this is sorted it would mean I'm without heating during the day

 

[flameport]

You need an electrician to connect the heating consumer unit / fusebox to the 24h supply.
Not the 'electrician' that installed them.

Your energy supplier can't do anything to circuits within the property. Neither can the DNO / network operator.

 

[Diver Fred]

Are you happy with the prospective running costs? Always on panel heaters will use more expensive electricity.

Why has your landlord swapped NSH for panel heaters? That will affect the property EPC - not for the good.

 

[ETAF]

i jnow someone who changed storage heaters for panel heaters and their electric bill doubled , they are retired so in all day , they used to have some additional heaters in the house to suplliment the storage heaters - but the electricity full bill was still double , as i measured it on meter readings every 3 months - so i know that the day these changed the units doubled .... and the guys that fitted the rads also changed over the storage heater fusebox (and provided an electical certificate) to be on 24hrs and NOT timed

 

[Adam_151]

Why has your landlord swapped NSH for panel heaters? That will affect the property EPC - not for the good.

Either,

1. Lower purchase cost of some basic panel heaters and he simply doesn't care

2. He has been taken in by some marketing of some expensive panel heaters that claim they contain phoenix tail feathers or unicorn droppings which allows them to transcend the first law of thermodynamics

 

[ETAF]

do they have separate thermostats , maybe the same make and claims , which i think the advertising authroity have been involved with in the past, looking at some of the reviews on trust pilot and google

 

[Murdochcat]

This begs the question how did the "electrician" verify through dead and live testing that the heaters worked - unless he did this during the night.

Incompetence of the LL and installer IMHO

 

[ericmark]

It is a hard decision to make, seen both sides, where the heaters were wanted 6 to 10 pm the non storage worked better, as the storage heaters were depleted by that time. Best option has always been remote storage, be it a room filled with bricks or a tank filled with water, the heat store needs well insulating not to loose the heat when it is wanted.

But the systems need space, and unlikely to be anywhere to fit them in a flat, and the water system needs a strong floor, so when fitted as the home is built they work, but as an after thought they are too expensive, and not viable.

So really only option is the heat pump, that is the only way heat cheaply with electric, I have thought about a TVO engine driving a heat pump from oil, and can see no reason it would not work, but not seen any ready built units for sale, likely too expensive.

But the landlord/tenant situation is not easy, landlord pays out and tenant gets the benefit if he pays out more for a economic system. And "An EPC gives a property an energy efficiency rating from A (most efficient) to G (least efficient) and is valid for 10 years." but they way they are done is silly. You can fit tungsten bulbs and the EPC goes down, but landlord has done nothing. And so he has limited control, but clearly he needs to reach the figure to allow the property to be rented, so suppose if a tenant removed storage heaters then the landlord could claim the money required to replace them for the tenant.

So not looking at simple economics but looking at the EPC rating and once the economy 7 is removed often it can not be replaced.

So with owner occupied it is just common sense what is done, and depends on life style, but with rented it gets rather complex.

 

[Diver Fred]

Either,

1. Lower purchase cost of some basic panel heaters and he simply doesn't care

2. He has been taken in by some marketing of some expensive panel heaters that claim they contain phoenix tail feathers or unicorn droppings which allows them to transcend the first law of thermodynamics

Certainly could be either. When I had the EPC completed for the tenanted property I had I changed the normal NSH for one of the 'High Heat Retention' ones as required by the EPC guru's. As I was told the running costs went up so for the first winter I gave a small discount on the rent for the first winter period (November to Mid-March).
The cost of the HHR NSH was about £750 at the time which was Tax Deductible as it was a maintenance cost - what the Original Posters landlord has done I question is tax deductible. Also unless the property EPC is an 'A' (or at the very least a high 'B') then I'm certain the panel heaters will seriously affect the EPC sufficiently so that the property will become unletible in time (April 2025 or April 2028).

I'd be pushing the Landlord to change the panel heaters for NSH's or a substantial rebate on the rent due to the increased energy costs. OP to keep a close watch on his electric meter readings and record the changes week to week.

 

[elitedawid]

Are you happy with the prospective running costs? Always on panel heaters will use more expensive electricity.

Why has your landlord swapped NSH for panel heaters? That will affect the property EPC - not for the good.

Because the storage heaters are very old they very inefficient they are expensive to run, we been told that the new heaters would be more efficient and have a lower running cost, I did run them for 1 entire night with 1 storage heater on as well and the cost wasn't much much higher compared to just using the 1 storage heater.

 

[elitedawid]

This begs the question how did the "electrician" verify through dead and live testing that the heaters worked - unless he did this during the night.

Incompetence of the LL and installer IMHO

He wasn't able to test them he told us to check if they work when the off peak unit was live

 

[flameport]

Because the storage heaters are very old they very inefficient

The efficiency of those heaters is the same today as when they were new.
Electrical energy in = heat energy out.

we been told that the new heaters would be more efficient

Lies.
Electrical energy in = heat energy out.

, I did run them for 1 entire night with 1 storage heater on as well and the cost wasn't much much higher compared to just using the 1 storage heater.

Try using the new heaters all day, which is what the storage heaters would have been doing.
You can expect them to cost 3x more than the storage types.

If you only heat the place for a couple of hours here and there, the new ones will be cheaper.
However that is only because the storage heaters are designed to heat all day, every day and can't do anything else.

 

[Diver Fred]

As a person who has used, relied on NSH's for many years I can be sure that with a big NSH (3 or 3.4KW input) will cost you around 10 units to charge up overnight (at present Electric rates around £1.50 per night), A HHR NSH may be more and has a daytime consumption also but as the (heat) discharge is different it may not need to run the 'Top-Up' heater in the evenings.
A 1KW panel heater on E7 electricity will consume electricity at its input rating per hour day and night - so could be 7x1KW overnight and 13x1KW daytime; so that is around £1.05 over night and around £4.80 during the day so for the 24 hours anything up £6 per KW. higher rated panel heaters will cost you more.
If you have them on for a couple of hours in the morning before you get up then that is £0.30 and 6 hours in the late afternoon and evening that will cost you £2.10 so for 24 hours £2.40 per KW input.

 

[Diver Fred]

Because the storage heaters are very old they very inefficient they are expensive to run, we been told that the new heaters would be more efficient and have a lower running cost, I did run them for 1 entire night with 1 storage heater on as well and the cost wasn't much much higher compared to just using the 1 storage heater.

What make are the new panel heaters?

 

[elitedawid]

As a person who has used, relied on NSH's for many years I can be sure that with a big NSH (3 or 3.4KW input) will cost you around 10 units to charge up overnight (at present Electric rates around £1.50 per night), A HHR NSH may be more and has a daytime consumption also but as the (heat) discharge is different it may not need to run the 'Top-Up' heater in the evenings.
A 1KW panel heater on E7 electricity will consume electricity at its input rating per hour day and night - so could be 7x1KW overnight and 13x1KW daytime; so that is around £1.05 over night and around £4.80 during the day so for the 24 hours anything up £6 per KW. higher rated panel heaters will cost you more.
If you have them on for a couple of hours in the morning before you get up then that is £0.30 and 6 hours in the late afternoon and evening that will cost you £2.10 so for 24 hours £2.40 per KW input.

I wake up to my smart meter after only having I heater charging up at night at Med-hight setting to about £4-5