Oh Dear

[morqthana]

Have you not noticed lately that most governments are singing from the same hymn-sheet. I wonder who wrote it?

I fear a swivel-eyed conspiracy theory brewing.

 

[ericmark]

I can suggest an experiment, which unfortunately would take 3 years to carry out.

For a whole year use only one system, and record consumption on a monthly basis. At the end of the time you'll be able to see which is most cost effective at what time of year, given your typical drying loads, which I guess would "average out" over long periods.

But no policy of targeting energy use will be practical if you need sometimes to decide against washer/drier drying because you need to dry one load at the same time as washing the next, or because you need to wash more in one load than can be dried in one load.

Does it really matter, I watch my daughter hanging out clothes, and wonder how many times they are re-washed due to soot or bird lime?

And detergent is not cheap, neither is using the washing machine.

Since I have the energy meters I have used them out of interest, and never the same results twice. I don't weigh my clothes, and I am sure there must be an ideal load. But that likely varies depending on if cotton or wool.

 

[Adam_151]

Not a popular opinion on here, but, I've got a smart meter and it does save me money (however I agree that for most folk on normal tariffs they make little sense)

I'm on octopus Agile, which gives you 48 different priced slots, details of which are available from about 16:00 the day before, which are based on the balancing prices of the wholesale energy market, and as the UK has significant amounts of wind in its generation these days, generally prices are cheapest when the wind blows and we are not burning coal for power.

I've not made any real inroads into automating stuff, I just manually refer to it, I'd normally run the washer overnight anyway as thats what I used to do on E7, but someones now I might run it on a weekend afternoon if thats better. I have an electric vehicle, but don't do too many miles, so I have freedom on when to charge, and the charging point has an intergration to pull in the agile prices and automatically use the cheapest power. I am normally home lateish from work, so don't normally cook untill after 7. Of course sometimes you need to use energy regardless, but often it can be moved, I don't to run the washer or dishwasher at peak times so I don't. Often you can get a bit of sneak peak on where pices will be going from the national grids carbon intensity forecast, its not perfect, but theres a bit of general correlation

Last bill I got, I was averging 16.88p a kwh, which is more or less what I was paying for the offpeak units on the old E7 tariff. Best day in the last Month was 29th October where I paid an average of 6.88p per unit and pulled 50.12 of them, most of which went into the car

If I get solar and a battery as I hope to do, I can optimise even more and for the majority of the year store enough solar to meet the baseload during the peak hours

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I'm on octopus Agile, which gives you 48 different priced slots, details of which are available from about 16:00 the day before, which are based on the balancing prices of the wholesale energy market, and as the UK has significant amounts of wind in its generation these days, generally prices are cheapest when the wind blows and we are not burning coal for power.

I'm just on Octopus's flexible rate, paying around 27p per unit. They have offered me a fix a couple of times, but it seems not to make sense for me at the moment. Octopus has lots of novel tweaks, lots of helpful ideas, and a very well supported, enthusiastic forum, where customers can even offer useful software. I'm not on the Agile tarriff, I looked at it, but I could see a way for me to make use of it. Out of curiosity, I get the Agile text messages, and graphs. You need to be able to have some decent loads, you can time shift, and I have none - my consumption is just lights, TV's and fridges/freezers, plus an occasional run of the washer.

 

[JohnW2]

Not a popular opinion on here, but, I've got a smart meter and it does save me money (however I agree that for most folk on normal tariffs they make little sense) ....
I'm on octopus Agile, which gives you 48 different priced slots, details of which are available from about 16:00 the day before ....

As I always say, that's rather different. If a supplier offers 'dynamic' tariffs (which I think only Octopus currently do to any appreciable extent) that can only possibly work with a 'smart' meter, then that is a choice on the part of a consumer who wants to have those tariffs.

However, as you imply, that is not the case with the great majority of consumers.

Kind Regards, John

 

[plugwash]

And as I always say, introducing new tariffs with dumb meters would be a bureaucratic nightmare because each new tariff would require the industry to agree a new set of assumptions about when the customers of that tariff used electricty.

Whereas with half-hourly metering the industry the retail metering basis matches the wholesale one. So there are no need for such assumptions.

So I fully expect all new tariffs, whether fully dynamic like agile octopus or more mundane ones like the various EV tariffs to require half-hourly metering, which for small customers means a "smart meter".

This won't happen overnight, it will take time for ICE to be replaced with EV and for Gas boilers to be replaced with heat pumps. It will take time for companies to experiment with tarrifs to find a balance between encouraging people to move their load around on the one hand and giving people some confidence in how much they will have to pay on the other.

I fully expect the "end game" on smart meters to be "you don't have to have one, but you will be significantly overpaying if you don't".

 

[JohnW2]

And as I always say, introducing new tariffs with dumb meters would be a bureaucratic nightmare because each new tariff would require the industry to agree a new set of assumptions about when the customers of that tariff used electricty. ... Whereas with half-hourly metering the industry the retail metering basis matches the wholesale one. So there are no need for such assumptions. So I fully expect all new tariffs, whether fully dynamic like agile octopus or more mundane ones like the various EV tariffs to require half-hourly metering, which for small customers means a "smart meter".

Exactly. I totally agree, and it's essentially what I just wrote - that if people want to take advantage of such tariffs (which no-one is forcing them to do) then part of the 'price' they have to pay is accepting a 'smart' meter.

I fully expect the "end game" on smart meters to be "you don't have to have one, but you will be significantly overpaying if you don't".

One doesn't really have to wait for the end game, nor necessarily have any sort of 'new' tariff, at least with some suppliers. In a property I own which has a 'smart meter', but a bog-standard single-rate 'default' tariff, I am actually paying less than I otherwise would simply because I have a smart meter.

Regulators can 'cap' electricity charges, but I can't see them ever 'forbidding' suppliers from offering reduced prices (below the 'cap') to certain customers on whatever basis it choses - and one of these 'bases'could be the acceptance of a 'smart' meter.

Kind Regards, John