Oh Dear

[Diver Fred]

Well, I'm surposed to have smart meter fitted. House No.1, 2003, fitter turns up take one look at the meter cupboard and says, I'm not wasting yours and my time fitting one - it won't work! I'll change it if push me to but TPTB will asking you to read the meter on a monthly basis.
Twenty years later, house No.2, first fitter comes out, takes a good luck at the installation and says I'm not sure I can change this safely, you'll have to rebook. 2'nd fitter turns up without the correct meter. I did tell both of them I doubted that the meter would work without an external ariel. Since then I've not heard a peep from them except two eMailed comments that unless the meter was changed they bill me at the companies non-contract (i.e. higher rate) price. Since then they (EDF) has change billing system, I still send them a meter reading on monthly basis but they no longer chase me to change meter or threat to charge me more.
What does concern me is it appears the SM reading goes through a central repository, what for?

 

[flameport]

What does concern me is it appears the SM reading goes through a central repository, what for?

All smart meters send data through DCC, who then send it on to the suppliers (and the reverse as in supplier sends data to DCC and then it gets sent to your meter)

Our Smart Network

Find the latest smart meter roll-out statistics, information on the progress of major DCC programmes, products, services and customer service.

www.smartdcc.co.uk

Not any other option other than each supplier operating it's own network, which would be ridiculously expensive and would have no realistic way for people to change supplier.

 

[ericmark]

I have three plug in Energy monitors, I do use them to monitor battery charging, freezer operation, brewing of my beer etc. The overall display tells me very little, I can see when we made coffee, and microwaved the evening meal, but as to how to use less energy it tells me very little.

I find it interesting to see how much energy used to tumble dry my clothes, but what I have noticed is every load is different, there is no way of working out how to use less energy by measuring it, it is simply turn it off or don't use it, and you save money, I have a washer/drier and a washing machine and heat pump drier, so I could change which system I use, but each time each machine is used the results a different, drying sensors, clothes weighting, and other built in energy saving means the results are useless in deciding which to use.

However if by having a smart meter I can save money then why not have one fitted? I do see the point made by

to venture down into my cellar

It is the same here, I have to go outside and down some steps and then back into the flat under house to read my meter, and with snow or ice, I simply say no, too dangerous to go down and read. I often wonder how next doors is read, as the meter box is on the wall outside, around 8 foot from the steps below it, never seen anyone read it. Maybe they already have a smart meter?

But once a smart meter is fitted, then I can forget going down to read it. If they can't read it, not my problem.

 

[mattylad]

If they cannot read it then it will soon become your problem

 

[ebee]

Well I suppose that those of us who belong to the "Save a Shilling" generations of yore, we do keep an eye on our spending and it is ingrained inside us. Smart meters do not make much difference to us ref usage of energy.
However, each generation since has ususually been a little more relaxed than the previous.
To the extent that we think "What the heck, they do not care".
I think that smart meters might help, for a while, those newbies

 

[ericmark]

I do see your point @ebee but my point is from this PC I can see consumption today, solar yield, use at moment, import from grid, production from panels etc. Plus two plug in energy meters, third one not linked to PC, so what can a smart meter tell me or for that matter anyone else I give the pass words to which I can't see at the moment?

The smart meter only thing is it is calibrated and serviced by the supplier, so I can't fiddle it, and yes I can see why the supplier does not want to use the data from the existing system, he wants data he has control of, however once permission has been granted to install a smart meter, to fail to fit one within a reasonable time, seems to only benefit the supplier.

It in their interest not to fit one. In my case some one has got 194.3 kWh for nothing. For people who have bought an EV they are paying over the odds to charge it.

It is nothing to do with being able to see what power one is using, the smart meter is all about paying or getting paid a far amount for the power. Up to a couple of months ago Scottish power would it seems use the meter installed by the solar panel fitters, now they want to use a smart meter reading, which I understand, but my supply is from British Gas, it does seem strange that I will buy from one company and sell to another, but what it means until British Gas get their finger out, Scottish power will not pay me.

The installer says they were given no notice, Scottish power had been using the meters they installed to pay for solar produced, but it seems a new law has stopped that happening, since a law and not billing agents rules, no good shopping around.

Smart meters are nothing to do with clapping hands to turn on the lights, how the advertising standards agency ever let them get away with that I don't know, smart meters is all about being able to have a variable tariff through the day, and paying for exported power. Both which mean the house holder looses and the supplier gains by not fitting smart meters, so any wonder why they are not being fitted on time.

 

[EFLImpudence]

People will not seem to remember that smart meters are fitted on the orders of the government; not the suppliers.

Why would the supplier want people to reduce their consumption?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Smart meters do not make much difference to us ref usage of energy.

This alone, makes them worthwhile for me......

What other way is there, apart from going out and logging the full gas meter reading every 30 minutes, to check what is consuming what on a gas bill?
Even if not at home, I can check this graph from anywhere in the world, and it is completely effortless to do.

The 10am peak, is my boiler/heating system, increasing the house temperature from 16C, to 18C. The low steady, continuous consumption, is the living room gas fire - running at <1Kw. The peak at 15:00 is the boiler coming on, to boost the (cold) hot water in the cylinder to 60C, all of the water in the cylinder was used, the evening before. The peaks just before 19:00, are when I decided to boost the house's general temperature, a little higher, whilst we dined. Consumption is then steady, for the rest of the evening, with just the gas fire on in the living room.

This was the consumption graph for last Saturday, when it fell below zero overnight, and didn't get much above zero during the day.

Long ago, on this forum - before I had access to such data, I asked whether it might be worthwhile to save cost/gas, to make more use of the living room gas fire, and less use of the heating system. The general advice, was to use the gas heating system, as it was much more efficient.

 

[davelx]

"What other way is there, apart from going out and logging the full gas meter reading every 30 minutes, to check what is consuming what on a gas bill?
Even if not at home, I can check this graph from anywhere in the world, and it is completely effortless to do."

Yes, but why do you need to know? If you need the appliance running then you need it running, otherwise turn it off. That will minimise your usage as much as is possible.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, but why do you need to know? If you need the appliance running then you need it running, otherwise turn it off. That will minimise your usage as much as is possible.

Wonderful. Hype rejected.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yes, but why do you need to know? If you need the appliance running then you need it running, otherwise turn it off. That will minimise your usage as much as is possible.

I was quite recently away for a week, it was reassuring to know that nothing had been left on, that the house temperatures remained above the 8C I had pre-set - because the heating system never fired, and that there was no recorded leakage.

It also confirmed what I thought, that making use of the gas fire, produced a net saving in gas and energy costs. I could not have done that, with just a daily consumption figure, reading the meter daily.

 

[JohnW2]

People will not seem to remember that smart meters are fitted on the orders of the government; not the suppliers.

You write that very frequently but,whilst it is in some senses true,I think your implications are potentially a bit misleading.

I think it very probable (probably inevitable) that something like the 'smart' meters we are use to would have come to be widely installed even if no government had never become involved. It seems that the concept of these meters was first invented (and patented) in the early1970s.

Also, when you speak of "the government", I take this to be a reference to the UK government, yet 'roll-outs' of such meters has been happening throughout the world for a long time, with or without government 'encouragement'(or 'compulsion', very probably preceding the UK 'roll-out' in some counties.

Why would the supplier want people to reduce their consumption?

Yes, it is a slightly odd one, but it's far from unprecedented in other fields.

Much as they would undoubtedly like to, producers of electricity obviously cannot sell (hence make profit from selling more electricity than they are able to generate, and plans for increasing generating capacity seem to be rather limited, and take a long time to implement. One imagines that the last thing they want (in terms of 'PR', 'obligations' and practical/'humanitarian' considerations) is to have a situation in which demand exceeds supply - so, until there is a considerable increase in generation capacity, it's probably in their interests to try to limit demand.

For a very long time, suppliers of electricity, water etc. have been offering advice/encouragement as regards reducing usage,even though that translates to less sales/profit for them.

Kind Regards, John

 

[carmanmemoranda]

"What other way is there, apart from going out and logging the full gas meter reading every 30 minutes, to check what is consuming what on a gas bill?
Even if not at home, I can check this graph from anywhere in the world, and it is completely effortless to do."

Yes, but why do you need to know? If you need the appliance running then you need it running, otherwise turn it off. That will minimise your usage as much as is possible.

I'm very firmly in the, "if it needs running use it. If not, turn it off".

Enough history of meter reads and bills can soon see any issue.

Turning things off or down is the only way to cut bills, and energy usage for the nation, down.

A smart meter doesn't cut bills, it just provides information. To who, and why are the pertinent questions

 

[EFLImpudence]

You write that very frequently but,whilst it is in some senses true,I think your implications are potentially a bit misleading.

It's not as misleading as blaming the suppliers.

I think it very probable (probably inevitable) that something like the 'smart' meters we are use to would have come to be widely installed even if no government had never become involved.

Maybe they would but that is not the situation.

It seems that the concept of these meters was first invented (and patented) in the early1970s.

Yet nothing happened until the government mandated it.

Also, when you speak of "the government", I take this to be a reference to the UK government, yet 'roll-outs' of such meters has been happening throughout the world for a long time, with or without government 'encouragement'(or 'compulsion', very probably preceding the UK 'roll-out' in some counties.

Have you not noticed lately that most governments are singing from the same hymn-sheet. I wonder who wrote it?

Yes, it is a slightly odd one, but it's far from unprecedented in other fields.

Which?

Much as they would undoubtedly like to, producers of electricity obviously cannot sell (hence make profit from selling more electricity than they are able to generate, and plans for increasing generating capacity seem to be rather limited,

By whom?

and take a long time to implement. One imagines that the last thing they want (in terms of 'PR', 'obligations' and practical/'humanitarian' considerations) is to have a situation in which demand exceeds supply - so, until there is a considerable increase in generation capacity, it's probably in their interests to try to limit demand.

You are doing the same - blaming the suppliers for whatever. Was it they who closed the power stations?

Have you not noticed that the government does not want to increase generation - quite the opposite?
I believe they call it net zero.

For a very long time, suppliers of electricity, water etc. have been offering advice/encouragement as regards reducing usage,even though that translates to less sales/profit for them.

On whose orders? Which ones have less profit?

 

[JohnW2]

It's not as misleading as blaming the suppliers.

I'm not 'blaming'anyone - although you are.

Maybe they would but that is not the situation.

Probably not in the UK (I'm not sure whether 'smart' meters were being installed before the 'government encouragement' came along - does anyone know?) - but I believe it is the situation in other countries

Yet nothing happened until the government mandated it.

As above, it 'happened' in some countries without government involvement.

Have you not noticed lately that most governments are singing from the same hymn-sheet. I wonder who wrote it?

So do I (wonder).

Which?

Water, for one.

By whom?

The generators, but also partially customers who would be unhappy with the price hikes that would be necessary to fund large-scale increases in generation capacity.

You are doing the same - blaming the suppliers for whatever.

As above, I'm not 'blaming' anyone - merely explaining.

Was it they who closed the power stations?

?

Have you not noticed that the government does not want to increase generation - quite the opposite? I believe they call it net zero.

Sure, in recent times the goalposts have been moved by (justifiable) concerns about environmental matters - so, yes, thatv is now another major reason why 'we' (the human race) would like to (maybe 'must') reduce energy consumption - at least, so long as it is energy 'cretwed'in ways which have environmental impact.

On whose orders? Which ones have less profit?

I don't know if anyone has 'ordered' it, but it's certainly been happening.

Kind Regards, John