Oil filter has no bypass valve

[DiyNutJob]

I've worked in garages for nearly years 50 and I've NEVER seen this done. It just doesn't happen.

I have never worked in garages, but have seen things tightened to hell on wheel nuts/bolts in a period far shorter than 50 years. It even happened to others. I had to lend my 3/4' 1.5m ratchet to a neighbour after an electric impact gun failed to loosen the bolts. This is the first time I have seen a sump plug being tightened to hell. Although, I don't get to see the plug often. The washer was completely flat. When I was undoing the plug with force, I was seriously concerned I might rip the oil pan off. There was also evidence on the plug itself there was impact, which I thought was unusual. This is unusual in itself since I don't get to see the plug often. So how the hell did it occur to me it was unusual?

No, I actually think he genuinely believes the stuff he spouts!

You be correct. You can tell I am quite a genuine and convincing person.

 

[Mottie]

It may have been tight. Very tight. But it would never have been tightened with an impact gun or a breaker bar. It's interesting that someone who is always asking advice on cars and who has never worked in a garage can say that there was evidence of an impact tool being used on the plug. With all my experience, I couldn't.

 

[DiyNutJob]

Impact damage on the bolt would suggest an impact gun.

I bet you will say in your 50 years of garage experience you have never seen large amount of grey packing foam pieces being stuffed behind the filtered side of the cabin air filter. Well, I have. Hence, I told the micra owner it would cost me less time to service the car than fixing the problems her garaged created for her.

I understand a cabin blower job would be £1000 pre-hyper-inflation-money because it would involve taking the dash apart. So the reason for it is apparent.

 

[Mottie]

I have no idea what you are talking about now. Seems to me that you are a chancer, carrying out repairs on other peoples vehicles for money with the help from people on this forum. I'm out. Bye.

 

[DiyNutJob]

It was for a family member. Not everything in life must be about money, despite the free market BS.

The foam was completely harmless but unbalancing the fan wheel resulting in broken fan like symptoms. But it was free to fix. That was a clever trick from an experienced hand - the foam stuffer that is. Now, how the hell did I know that? I can honestly tell you I don't know. The gut works in mysterious ways.

So you think I service cars for people because I have a big 1.5m ratchet? The shop manager asked if I was OK when I was buying it. I bought it because my experiences told me I needed it and because it was at a surprisingly good price.

 

[Avocet]

I have never worked in garages, but have seen things tightened to hell on wheel nuts/bolts in a period far shorter than 50 years. It even happened to others. I had to lend my 3/4' 1.5m ratchet to a neighbour after an electric impact gun failed to loosen the bolts. This is the first time I have seen a sump plug being tightened to hell. Although, I don't get to see the plug often. The washer was completely flat. When I was undoing the plug with force, I was seriously concerned I might rip the oil pan off. There was also evidence on the plug itself there was impact, which I thought was unusual. This is unusual in itself since I don't get to see the plug often. So how the hell did it occur to me it was unusual?

I don't think I have EVER undone a threaded fastener that has been in place for a year or more, which hasn't required more torque to undo it than to do it up. Pretty much everyone who works on things with threaded fasteners, will have noticed this. I'd have retired comfortably by now, if I'd had a quid for every time I'd heard a mechanic shout "what bloody gorilla tightened this up?!". Metals, (even dissimilar ones) microscopically "weld" themselves together with time. The Americans have a wonderfully descriptive term, "stiction" for it. As you have been told (by people who have a lot more experience in these matters than you, (not least, because they change their oil rather more frequently) have told you it's highly unlikely / impossible that someone would have used an impact gun to do it up, but obviously, you do get people who come on forums, ask questions, and then tell the people answering them that they're wrong.
The thickness of the washer (not the flatness - they're supposed to be flat) could be as a result of over-tightening, but could also be as a result of multiple re-use.
The marks on the nut (you don't say where), are unlikely to be anything to do with the means of applying the torque, and are far more likely to be to do with the design of the socket or spanner used on it.
But of course, you know best...

You be correct. You can tell I am quite a genuine and convincing person.

I can tell that you're genuine...

 

[Avocet]

It was for a family member. Not everything in life must be about money, despite the free market BS.

The foam was completely harmless but unbalancing the fan wheel resulting in broken fan like symptoms. But it was free to fix. That was a clever trick from an experienced hand - the foam stuffer that is. Now, how the hell did I know that? I can honestly tell you I don't know. The gut works in mysterious ways.

So you think I service cars for people because I have a big 1.5m ratchet? The shop manager asked if I was OK when I was buying it. I bought it because my experiences told me I needed it and because it was at a surprisingly good price.

It was probably the lizards...

 

[Mottie]

So you think I service cars for people because I have a big 1.5m ratchet? The shop manager asked if I was OK when I was buying it. I bought it because my experiences told me I needed it and because it was at a surprisingly good price.

A 1.5m long 3/4" drive ratchet? I've worked on commercial vehicles and I have a 3/4" drive socket set as well as a 3/4" impact wrench. My 3/4" ratchet is not 1.5m long though. FFS, what experience on earth would tell you that you needed to get something that size?

 

[DiyNutJob]

A 1.5m long 3/4" drive ratchet? I've worked on commercial vehicles and I have a 3/4" drive socket set as well as a 3/4" impact wrench. My 3/4" ratchet is not 1.5m long though. FFS, what experience on earth would tell you that you needed to get something that size?

So, you are back already?

I needed a mother of all ratchets to cover all contingencies I am likely to encounter on a car. It was telescopic and only £30 brand new. One use I could think of is for the front main seal. But I have used it for other stuff for the greater leverage - wheel bearings for example. Some normal wheel bolts need it, because you get monkeys in places.

 

[Mottie]

So, you are back already?

Yes, I'm back already but I'm out permanently with offering you advice.

 

[DiyNutJob]

I don't think I have EVER undone a threaded fastener that has been in place for a year or more, which hasn't required more torque to undo it than to do it up.

Let's say you would find my wheel bolt put on 5 years ago at 110Nm is easier to undo than the micra sump plug.

they're supposed to be flat

They are not, your lack of experience shows:

 

[DiyNutJob]

Yes, I'm back already but I'm out permanently with offering you advice.

I am sure I will make it worth your while to resume your normal service. But, I have no outstanding car related questions for a long while. Now, I go and see if my 9m aluminium scaffold can really go 9m. Nice weather for it.

 

[Avocet]

Let's say you would find my wheel bolt put on 5 years ago at 110Nm is easier to undo than the micra sump plug.




They are not, your lack of experience shows:

View attachment 267948

Oh dear... you still haven't worked out the difference between "flat" and the "thin" yet, I see? Come on... It's really not hard! A cylinder head mating surface has to be "flat". However, a cylinder head is not "thin".

 

[DiyNutJob]

Flat is not same as flat surface. Unlike a normal washer, the nissan washer is distinctly not flat even though it has flat surfaces after installation. Obviously, it's a problem on nissans where the sump plug could not be guaranteed to mate to the sump perfectly flat. Hence, the washer is made to adapt to the 'wonkiness' that could happen. This also explains why the garage had to impact gun it to hell to stop leaking. An ordinary washer would not have worked because it would need too much compression on one side. No doubt they tried using an ordinary washer. See, I have come up with this reconstruction just now. When you have a feel for things, you will know exactly what happened. If you were in their shoes, you too would be impacting that plug like a crazed nut, all the while not understanding why there is a problem.

This is one more evidence of japanese manufacturers creating obstacles to trip even the so called experienced garages. Although, their intended target is the DIY'er. I speculate the threads on the sump is deliberately made at an angle to render the ordinary flat washer useless.

 

[Avocet]

Flat is not same as flat surface. Unlike a normal washer, the nissan washer is distinctly not flat even though it has flat surfaces after installation. Obviously, it's a problem on nissans where the sump plug could not be guaranteed to mate to the sump perfectly flat. Hence, the washer is made to adapt to the 'wonkiness' that could happen. This also explains why the garage had to impact gun it to hell to stop leaking. An ordinary washer would not have worked because it would need too much compression on one side. No doubt they tried using an ordinary washer. See, I have come up with this reconstruction just now. When you have a feel for things, you will know exactly what happened. If you were in their shoes, you too would be impacting that plug like a crazed nut, all the while not understanding why there is a problem.

This is one more evidence of japanese manufacturers creating obstacles to trip even the so called experienced garages. Although, their intended target is the DIY'er. I speculate the threads on the sump is deliberately made at an angle to render the ordinary flat washer useless.

One of the small pleasures of going on internet fora, is watching people who are clearly clueless, attempting to "educate" those who (if only they had the wit to realise it), are a lot more knowledgable than themselves on something or other. I suppose it's a sort of 21st century, gender-neutral, virtual form of "mansplaining"...

Yes, that type of washer (often called a "crushable" washer), is partly intended to take up misalignments between the mating surfaces. However, I can assure you that Nissan's (or indeed Renault's, as they were basically the same outfit when that Micra was built) manufacturing capabilities are no different to those of any other car manufacturer - not that many car manufacturers make their own sumps or sump plugs or indeed sealing washers. But then, you didn't become the "foghorn of ignorance" that you are today, by listening to other's peoples' assurances, did you?

Getting back to the issue though. A "flat" (or "plain", as they are called in ISO 7089) washer will be available in various thicknesses. You are confusing the terms "flat" and "thin". What you are describing is a "crushable" washer that has either been re-used several times, or has been over-tightened (or both), and has become "thin" as a result.