Oil not coming from the suntec pump. HELP

[loughneagh]

Hi Coleaine

I don't claim to be an expert at this but please have a look at a thread of mine "Burner problem", currently on page 5, similar problem to yours, if you are not certain about the solenoid opening try a photocell for about £6. Mine was breaking down and not allowing the coil to energise properly. The are a couple of good plumbers merchants in Coleraine and no doubt some in Derry too, just google them. My coil resistance was about 2.2K ohm, don't rely fully on voltage readings at the coil if you have the burner removed from the boiler because the photocell can possibly pick up enough light to change resistance, (lower) and not allow the coil to energise. I take it from your post you're not too electrical minded so please be careful when testing for voltages.

Hope this helps, it's getting cold!

 

[cjb1971]

Quick way to test your photcell,disconnect it from inside the control box,if boiler fires up and then locks out=faulty photocell,when the boiler fails to ignite,pull out burner and look at combustion head to make sure it is dry,this proves no oil is getting to nozzle,if combustion blast tube is wet,then you have a problem with your spark electrode/transformer.When burner is removed,disconnect solenoid coil and try to fire it up,you should see a purple spark emiting from the electrodes if they working ok.

 

[WDIK]

WDIK says, the photocell allows oil to continue flowing once a flame is established and seen.

thats not what i said

 

[Burnerman]

WDIK says, the photocell allows oil to continue flowing once a flame is established and seen.

thats not what i said

My apologies, and indeed it was not....
Just trying to help Coleaine to get familiar with his set up.
John

 

[coleaine]

Hi John,another day at this boiler.
I have taken some photos off the pump.I can email them to you.(what is your email) PM ME.
I striped the pump last night and it was very clean no sludge or anything,I took the solenoid shaft off to see if i could see anything that was maybe jamming it all i could see was 2 O rings and both looked good.
When I said yesterday that oil was going into the pump I want to make clear when I pressed the reset button and loosened the pressure screw oil came out under very good pressure,but its not coming out of the small thin feed pipe I have maked that pipe on one of the photos to exlain.So it looks like the value is not switching.
I hope I have not made this sound confusing.

Coleraine..

 

[Burnerman]

Good morning
I've sent you my e-mail address, but as an ICT guy I'm a first class engineer.....!
Can you post the pics right here so others can contribute?
cjb1971's trick with the photocell works well.
John

 

[coleaine]

Good morning
I've sent you my e-mail address, but as an ICT guy I'm a first class engineer.....!
Can you post the pics right here so others can contribute?
cjb1971's trick with the photocell works well.
John

Good morning John,just to let you know how its going now,I have the boiler starting now pumping oil and lighting then cuts off after a few seconds.
When I fited the pump back this morning and still not getting oil I adjusted the screw holding the spring in the solenoid valve and the less pressure on the spring the more oil came through.So now its lighting and am not sure if its as much oil pressure as before.But the problem is getting smaller now I hope.I dont know how to add photos on here.

Do you have a 01 02 phone number maybe I could phone you. if you know how to fix this cutting out problem.

 

[coleaine]

Photos of my suntec pump.

Photos added to my photos all can view

 

[Burnerman]

Phone no. sent! I'll be wearing a red carnation

 

[MANDATE]

I would say that if your boiler starts, that must mean the spark and oil is present. (oil may or may not be at correct pressure).
The control box and photo cell is a safety device, based on the photo cell detecting a light from the established flame., within about 20 secs.
When I was faced with a similar problem, not quite knowing what was causing the problem. I removed the control box/photo cell entirely.
Using a switched extension lead I wired the 'transformer' 'motor/pump' and 'solinoid' all separately.
This way I could test each for operation and going through the correct sequence I could run the boiler. This then meant I could also adjust the pressure. (pressure gauge required )
Knowing there was nothing amiss with the boiler itself I replaced the old control box/photo cell only to find it was the souce of problem.
A new control box/photo cell cured it.
Also built simple bench rig using bulb holders/bulbs to represent transformer,motor/pump and solinoid, switch to act as boiler stat. Cardboard tube to keep photo cell in darkness or expose to light.

 

[Burnerman]

I would say that if your boiler starts, that must mean the spark and oil is present. (oil may or may not be at correct pressure).
The control box and photo cell is a safety device, based on the photo cell detecting a light from the established flame., within about 20 secs.
When I was faced with a similar problem, not quite knowing what was causing the problem. I removed the control box/photo cell entirely.
Using a switched extension lead I wired the 'transformer' 'motor/pump' and 'solinoid' all separately.
This way I could test each for operation and going through the correct sequence I could run the boiler. This then meant I could also adjust the pressure. (pressure gauge required )
Knowing there was nothing amiss with the boiler itself I replaced the old control box/photo cell only to find it was the souce of problem.
A new control box/photo cell cured it.
Also built simple bench rig using bulb holders/bulbs to represent transformer,motor/pump and solinoid, switch to act as boiler stat. Cardboard tube to keep photo cell in darkness or expose to light.

I've used a similar bench rig to test control boxes..its a good one

I think coleraine has slacked off the oil valve in the pump - and in doing so has allowed some oil to pass - hence it cutting in. I haven't tried this myself, but presumably removing the oil valve from the pump, putting the coil back on and energising it, would cause the solenoid to retract. John

 

[coleaine]

So the story now is I took back the coil I bought yesterday and bought a photocell just to make sure now since I had it starting but cutting out.
Just fitted the photocell and we are getting Heat YEPEEEEEEEEEEE.( I can take of my jumper now)
Cant thank you enough for all your help.
So seems like a stuck valve and faulty photocell.

I would just Like to Thank John and the others who helped me out.

Cheers Guys

 

[coleaine]

So the story now is I took back the coil I bought yesterday and bought a photocell just to make sure now since I had it starting but cutting out.
Just fitted the photocell and we are getting Heat YEPEEEEEEEEEEE.( I can take of my jumper now)
Cant thank you enough for all your help.
So seems like a stuck valve and faulty photocell.

I would just Like to Thank John and the others who helped me out.

Cheers Guys

ITS WARM IN MY HOUSE TODAY.

 

[MANDATE]

I think coleraine has slacked off the oil valve in the pump - and in doing so has allowed some oil to pass - hence it cutting in. I haven't tried this myself, but presumably removing the oil valve from the pump, putting the coil back on and energising it, would cause the solenoid to retract. John

Not sure which valve you mean.
As I understand it, there are 2 oil valves. (a) The Adjustable pressure valve where the pressure opens the valve and pushes oil out to the nozzle.
(b) The solinoid operated valve, simply open or closed (normally open).

Oil passes across (a) has no effect due to low pressure and continues through (b) which is open and back to tank.
Solinoid when energised, closes (b) causing pressure build up, which now opens (a)

If valve (b) was removed, it would leave a open path and leave(a) closed.
If (a) was removed, I presume pressure could not build up to force oil through the nozzle.
Not clear if coleraine has altered the adjusting screw for pressure.
I purchased a gauge to check the pump pressure, to find the 100psi requirement was down 24psi so little wonder I has lockouts.
There's a good diagram on the suntec site

 

[coleaine]

i altered the adjusting screw for pressure,it has a spring and a nipple inside,Its a 17mm bolt type and threaded inside with a grub screw that can alter the spring tension using a 4mm alan key.The grub screw pushes the nipple onto the spring.I found that adjusting adding less pressure to the spring increased the oil pressure,it was trial and error ,if I unscrewed to much the pressure dropped again.

Hope you understand what I mean.
I coukl draw it sometime and maybe add to the site maybe help some others