Oil prices up yet again.

[Norcon]

Masona wrote

we in the UK have the cheapest petrol in the world

Is this true ?.
Was in Florida a few years ago and petrol was one quarter the price that I was paying for at home in the UK.
Perhaps prices have risen significantly abroad in the last few years.
Over to you Masona.

 

[megawatt]

Another Joe-90 rambling:

Time's running out mate. In the last year when I've predicted this coming shortage you've laughed about it. Thing is, oil has doubled in price since that time. If it doubles again - our entire economy will collapse - and that's not just opinion - that's fact.

No, actually, it's another Joe-90 meaningless opinion ... It'll be a FACT if it happens

Why can't you grasp that?

Why can't you grasp that a lot of people disagree with your opinion?

So where is this new energy? Fusion? It would take 50 years to get things set up

I've already answered this, try reading the post properly.

And we haven't even got 50 months

What a clown you are ... Best laugh I've had all week

Not only that it would be a hopeless replacement.

So says Joe the expert on what exactly?

Over to you

No, you keep going and I'll keep on laughing.

MW

 

[megawatt]

Is this true ?.
Was in Florida a few years ago and petrol was one quarter the price that I was paying for at home in the UK.
Perhaps prices have risen significantly abroad in the last few years.
Over to you Masona.

I assumed he meant production rather than price at the pump where we clearly get ripped off on a Worldwide scale ... Petrol prices in the US are significantly less than in the UK and always will be as Senate election depends on it (and gun law of course )

MW

 

[joe-90]

Another Joe-90 rambling:

Time's running out mate. In the last year when I've predicted this coming shortage you've laughed about it. Thing is, oil has doubled in price since that time. If it doubles again - our entire economy will collapse - and that's not just opinion - that's fact.

No, actually, it's another Joe-90 meaningless opinion ... It'll be a FACT if it happens

Why can't you grasp that?

Why can't you grasp that a lot of people disagree with your opinion?

So where is this new energy? Fusion? It would take 50 years to get things set up

I've already answered this, try reading the post properly.

And we haven't even got 50 months

What a clown you are ... Best laugh I've had all week

Not only that it would be a hopeless replacement.

So says Joe the expert on what exactly?

Over to you

No, you keep going and I'll keep on laughing.

MW

You keep laughing. It's called 'gallows humour'. (Go and warm up google.)

 

[Hysteresis]

We need the energy TODAY not in 50 years time (should it ever work and so far it looks like a non-starter).

Megawatt says there is a new type of energy ready to take over but he won't say what it is.

Even if fusion worked - how would that give us fertilizer, pesticides, plastics etc? How could it ever be made portable? Hydrogen from water? How big a plant would that take for a modern world?

Joe - We HAVE energy today, the problem is, as we all know. it is running out. We can get along with out fertilizers, pesticides and plastics, but we can't get along with out Energy. The use of Fertilizers and Pesticides can be minimised or even eliminated by Genetic Modification and if our survival depends on it I assume any resistance to its development and implementation will very quickly evaporate. Plastics are very convenient but not a necessity for survival, and the enormous quantity of waste plastic can be recovered from the waste mountains and recycled.
Energy is totally different. Maybe Fusion is an unachievable form of energy, but 'maybe' is no reason to abandon attempts to solve the problem. It was said that the Fission process could never be tamed, but it was. Who knows what can be achieved by far more intelligent people than me (maybe not far more intelligent that you, but on that subject I have my doubts). Maybe your estimate of 40 years for a workable solution is based on fact or 'gut' feel, but as needs grow then resources to solve the fusion problem will also grow. Fusion occurs naturally in the universe as do many other phenomena and Man has harnesses most of them so why not Fusion - eventually. In so far as portability of Fusion technology, then probably not, but again who knows what is possible when the problem is not solved yet. Energy transportability is reasonable with the battery powered vehicle although not really viable at this point in time but once again battery technology is still developing. So electricity from fusion solves the transport problem to a large degree.
Let's not write off Fusion before science fully understands it, but as I said in earlier postings we have nowhere else to go as all other forms of energy generation are either running out or as in renewables, hopelessly inadequate to meet our needs. Maybe Deep Geothermal sources could be what Megawatt refers to as new types of energy sources ready to take over, at least if that were developed it would be reliable and predictable.
One other source which seems to have lost appeal is 'The Fast Breeder Reactor' but that may be because of its nuclear implications.
You never know, CERN's LHC may throw some light on the Fusion problem, that is of course if it is ever switched on.

 

[Norcon]

Fusion ?.
Its seems as though you are grasping at straws. Humanity will find a way come what may. Siberian tribesmen can survive in climates which drop to -50 using nothing more than their ox as their supply of energy.
When we in the west all die off or kill each other over a few scraps of bread or what ever these guys will still be laying snugly in their leather hide tents .

 

[joe-90]

Yeah but that's the problem - we've got a few billion too many people to feed.

 

[Hysteresis]

Fusion ?.
Its seems as though you are grasping at straws. Humanity will find a way come what may. Siberian tribesmen can survive in climates which drop to -50 using nothing more than their ox as their supply of energy.
When we in the west all die off or kill each other over a few scraps of bread or what ever these guys will still be laying snugly in their leather hide tents .

Yes! Isn't 'clutching at straws' what a drowning man does? and as sure as Hell we are drowning!
Whether these Siberian Guys are quite as Sung i their little tents as you suggest is I think very doubtful.
Fusion is a reality not a myth, just look in the sky for proof, whether Man can reproduce it is another thing - but it does work!
Production of energy is what we do to avoid the Siberian experience. When we all die off in a great Mass Extinction, then no doubt pockets of 'Hard Guys' will I have no doubt survive, but we have become accustomed to a far better standard of living (debateable I know) and this leads us to try and maintain it.

 

[masona]

Masona wrote

we in the UK have the cheapest petrol in the world

Is this true ?.
Was in Florida a few years ago and petrol was one quarter the price that I was paying for at home in the UK.
Perhaps prices have risen significantly abroad in the last few years.
Over to you Masona.

Sorry I was misleading, we have the cheapest petrol/diesel before tax duty. The government even put 17.5% VAT on top of the tax duty and 1.5% goes to the EU. Blair & Brown had signed agreement in 2001 at the EU Brussel that they agreed that petrol prices won't come down whatever the prices is

More info below


http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=442274&in_page_id=2

 

[Thermo]

im just going to drive off a cliff now, i cant face it....oh no theres no petrol left i cant!

 

[masona]

Gordan Brown saved your life

 

[megawatt]

I'm just going to drive off a cliff now, I cant face it.

Lend Joe your car and ask him to go instead ... PLEEEEEEEASE!

MW

 

[masona]

You can only speculate on a commodity in short supply. No-one speculates on sand or pea gravel.

OPEC cannot increase output like that. We can get a certain amount to the surface but thats all. It isn't an underground lake you know.

The problem is that all the refineries are running flat out at full capacity and pumping out as fast as they can which doesn't leave room for error or accident therefore cannot keep up with the worldwide demand.

 

[empip]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2008/07/the_tarmac_heat.html

THE TARMAC, HEATHROW:
Waiting to fly to the G8 summit with the PM where he will be discussing the state of the economy food, fuel and climate change. Interesting to note that having failed to charter a BA plane our transport had to fly in from Dallas,Texas. The carbon footprint's not looking too good...

 

[joe-90]

Good thinking Masona, but let's take it a bit further. The reason that no new refineries are being built is...? That's right - NO NEW OIL.

This means as demand from the East continues upward (2.5 billion people in China and India want cars and air con and all the mod cons that you have) - there will be a huge shortfall in supply. That means a massive price hike that the Western economies cannot handle. The economy is a machine and when one part breaks down the whole lot grinds to a halt. It looks like that has already started.