OK, so Ideal combi boilers are rubbish....

[D_Hailsham]

The mark up we put on boilers, in my case anyway, is to cover the chance and cost, that I may get called out if a fault develops.

I can't see anything wrong in that, provided the mark up is reasonable. If you buy a boiler at "trade" price for, say, £500 and sell it to the customer for the "retail" price of £750, that would seem fair and reasonable. But if you sell it for £1000, i.e. the retail price plus a mark up of £250, then that is definitely not fair and reasonable.

The other thing customers do not like is being charged twice for the same thing: a mark up to cover faults which may develop, and then having an amount added to the bill as a warranty.

One question is puzzling me. If a component in a boiler fails while the boiler is covered by the manufacturer's warranty, does the manufacturer pay the labour charge for diagnosing the fault and repairing the boiler or just the cost of the component?

 

[Agile]

I can't see anything wrong in that, provided the mark up is reasonable. If you buy a boiler at "trade" price for, say, £500 and sell it to the customer for the "retail" price of £750, that would seem fair and reasonable.

The other thing customers do not like is being charged twice for the same thing: a mark up to cover faults which may develop, and then having an amount added to the bill as a warranty.

One question is puzzling me. If a component in a boiler fails while the boiler is covered by the manufacturer's warranty, does the manufacturer pay the labour charge for diagnosing the fault and repairing the boiler or just the cost of the component?

There is no longer any trade or retail price as all merchants will sell a boiler to anyone at about the same price. Installers who buy a lot of boilers might get them a very little cheaper but nothing significant.

We charge a stand alone installation charge and supply the boiler at ( trade ) cost plus £10 delivery.

I dont really understand your question about warranty repairs. Large manufacturers have a team of staff engineers and a few independ service agents. Smaller manufacturers have a network of service agents who are called on as needed. They usually give a faster response, sometimes within the hour! I twice went to warranty repairs within 20 minutes!

Some manufacturers will allow the installer to diagnose the fault and fit a replacement part. Although the new part is supplied free, the engineer is not paid for his time. Thats useful if the staff engineer cannot attend for a few days which is common!

Only the better installers have the skill or willingness to do that. Most dont know how to repair boilers and some cannot be bothered once they have been paid for an installation. Thats where reputation counts! The best installers carry a kit of spare parts for the boiler they fit.

Tony

 

[D_Hailsham]

There is no longer any trade or retail price as all merchants will sell a boiler to anyone at about the same price. Installers who buy a lot of boilers might get them a very little cheaper but nothing significant.

But many manufacturers still publish recommended prices and that is what I was referring to as the "retail" price.

We charge a stand alone installation charge and supply the boiler at ( trade ) cost plus £10 delivery.

Couldn't quibble about that.

I dont really understand your question about warranty repairs. Large manufacturers have a team of staff engineers and a few independ service agents. Smaller manufacturers have a network of service agents who are called on as needed.

Some manufacturers will allow the installer to diagnose the fault and fit a replacement part. Although the new part is supplied free, the engineer is not paid for his time.

There have been many discussions on here about the advisability of a customer buying a boiler and then getting someone else to install it. The danger, it is alleged is that the installer will come along, diagnose a boiler fault and then say: " That's not my problem, you bought the boiler you will have to call the manufacturer's service dept." If, on the other hand the installer provides and installs the boiler it is his problem.

Now, irrespective of who purchased the boiler, the installer has had to spend time diagnosing a problem which is not his fault. Why the customer should have to pay for his time or he should have to bear the cost himself, is not right. I don't know what happens when you buy a new car and have to return it for warranty repairs or it is "recalled" for a fault to be rectified. Does the dealer have to bear the labour cost or does Ford etc pick up the bill?

 

[Agile]

There have been many discussions on here about the advisability of a customer buying a boiler and then getting someone else to install it. The danger, it is alleged is that the installer will come along, diagnose a boiler fault and then say: " That's not my problem, you bought the boiler you will have to call the manufacturer's service dept." If, on the other hand the installer provides and installs the boiler it is his problem.

No, thats not the case at all!

If the customer supplies the boiler then the installer will not come back to it if it seems to have gone wrong.

You have to understand that most problems during the warrantee period are as a result of user incompetence or just the user does not top up the system. They are not boiler faults at all.

To show just how stupid they can be, I was called to a warrantee call with no power to the boiler. On the telephone I asked if the fused spur switch had been turned off. She said there was none! I called the installer who could not remember. I went and found the switch within 300 mm of the boiler and off ! Thats a chargeable call !

Installers learn to understand these silly things customers forget and include an allowance for visiting and showing the customer how to use the boiler for the 10th time !

Tony

 

[gas4you]

My mark up is on the price I pay for the boiler, not the retail. Because of this my labour rates appear higher than others.

Others may claim a lower labour rate but load it on the parts.

All you can do is compare all the costs in final price quotes you get in.

If someone supplies their own boiler and wants me to check it if it goes wrong apparently under warranty, then they get charged my standard £60 + VAT call out.

Manufacturers supply good installers with a 'first aid kit' of the most common parts FOC, but do not usually pay and labour to fix them

 

[D_Hailsham]

If the customer supplies the boiler then the installer will not come back to it if it seems to have gone wrong.

But all the installer will get is a phone call saying: "My central heating is not working!" He won't know it is a boiler fault until he has been along and diagnosed the problem (That is assuming he is not a DIYnot expert who can diagnose any fault at a distance )

You have to understand that most problems during the warranty period are as a result of user incompetence or just the user does not top up the system. They are not boiler faults at all.

I accept that, but it's not really relevant to who picks up the labour bill if the boiler is faulty.

To show just how stupid they can be, I was called to a warranty call with no power to the boiler. On the telephone I asked if the fused spur switch had been turned off. She said there was none! I called the installer who could not remember. I went and found the switch within 300 mm of the boiler and off ! That's a chargeable call !

So it should be!

Sounds as if your customer must be the same person who phoned up her computer support and complained that her computer had died. After preliminary tests, the engineer asked her to check that the lead had not come unplugged. "I'll try", she said," but it's a bit dark in here at the moment." "Why is that", asked the engineer. "Oh", she replied,"we've had a power cut."

 

[gas4you]

I saw the transcript of this call, the call centre opereator got the sack, after telling the customer to get the box it came in, put it inthere and take it back to the shop they bought it from.

Customer asked if this would fix it, opertor said no, but as you are too f****** thick to use it, it's best if you take it back.

 

[WabbitPoo]

Well, another day, another fault code. Today it is "L..F" which suggests some ignition issue. Pressed the reset button and it came back.

I am hoping to get the full set of errors pretty soon, whereupon I will be disappointed if a bell doesn't go off and a stream of old 10p peices issues forth from the filling loop.

Thanks for hijacking the thread, by the way!

 

[gas4you]

Don't beleive what the manual sats for L:F.

Could be flame failure, no spark, no gas etc etc, but more often than not points to the condensate trap blocked, or the condesate drain blocked.

When was the last service done? I can't be bothered to re-read all the posts now

 

[WabbitPoo]

Each time we've had a guy come out to it they have given it a "good looking over". There's so many new bits I have lost track of servicing schedules. its going anyhow, hopefully next week.