- Joined
- 27 Jan 2008
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- 23,670
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- 2,668
- Location
- Llanfair Caereinion, Nr Welshpool
- Country
If you are talking one to one with someone you make a judgment as to there ability and modify what you are saying according to what you think they will understand.
But on a forum you all talking to all not just the person who posted question.
One view is to arrive at a forum the person should be first directed to a projects section and any references to the different parts of building regulations should be covered there so should be no need to repeat in the forum. May be good idea but unlikely to work in practice?
It is so easy to quote the sensible approach and say “must” for example you must use a registered electrician to do work in a kitchen or bathroom. With the local authority charges in this area of £115 minimum to register work under Part P it would be sensible to use a registered electrician but you can DIY and if other notifiable work was being done at the same time it could still be an option.
But even a simple job like changing a ceiling rose can be dangerous when the person thinks switching the lights off will make it safe to work on! And for those in the know it seems so obvious you should switch off at the consumer unit they will often forget to mention where to isolate they will just say isolate.
The college lecturer with class full of students quickly gets to know what they understand and of course has earth leakage trips in case he makes a mistake but although the regulations may require earth leakage trips on most circuits it does not mean they will actually be there.
One can still remember the teacher saying “If I told you to put your finger in the fire would you do that?” after following instructions too literal.
And if I think I am talking to another electrician I am hardly likely to include step by step instructions as to how to make safe.
The screwfix and iet forums are advertised as for the profession and if an ordinary person goes onto these and makes a mistake then it’s there own fault but where DIY is included in title we should assume the only training they have received is how to change a plug when they were at school etc.
My son came home from school quite upset where his teacher had told them there were two types of transistor could anyone tell him what they were.
He answered “Field effect and Bi-polar sir” and was told no they are NPN and PNP which is a sub-division of the Bi-polar with teachers like that who did not even know what a field effect transistor was in spite of them being invented first how much can we rely on the school education system?
And my father tells me when he was at school pre-war he was just taught the 3 R’s never quite worked out why writing and arithmetic were considered as R’s?
And to say red or brown wire caused some confusion and fuse or MCB or RCBO or even overload device seems to really upset people and you get “What is a MCB?”
Then we start to nit pick where someone says “Only in the kitchen, bathroom and outdoors does Part P apply” where they should have said “You only need to notify in the kitchen, bathroom and outdoors under Part P” most people realise Part P applies to all domestic premises. Even then we have to remember premises only include building to which title deeds would be issued so mobile homes, caravans, boats etc. are not premises and only building which are charged domestic council tax are included. And even then, only in England and Wales.
Which really shows how daft it can get, if we try to include all when giving advice. So when asked for example “Is it the red wires that should go to my bathroom light or the black one with red sleeve” should we simply answer black one with red sleeve or should we tell the poster all about Part P and the new 17th Edition and need to use RCD’s ect?
Reason I ask is I have been accused of giving dangerous advice which was basically I failed to list all the regulations involved and when a simple question was asked like can I replace my fuses with MCB’s answered “Yes” and did not list all the dangers and regulations and tests that should be carried out.
But on a forum you all talking to all not just the person who posted question.
One view is to arrive at a forum the person should be first directed to a projects section and any references to the different parts of building regulations should be covered there so should be no need to repeat in the forum. May be good idea but unlikely to work in practice?
It is so easy to quote the sensible approach and say “must” for example you must use a registered electrician to do work in a kitchen or bathroom. With the local authority charges in this area of £115 minimum to register work under Part P it would be sensible to use a registered electrician but you can DIY and if other notifiable work was being done at the same time it could still be an option.
But even a simple job like changing a ceiling rose can be dangerous when the person thinks switching the lights off will make it safe to work on! And for those in the know it seems so obvious you should switch off at the consumer unit they will often forget to mention where to isolate they will just say isolate.
The college lecturer with class full of students quickly gets to know what they understand and of course has earth leakage trips in case he makes a mistake but although the regulations may require earth leakage trips on most circuits it does not mean they will actually be there.
One can still remember the teacher saying “If I told you to put your finger in the fire would you do that?” after following instructions too literal.
And if I think I am talking to another electrician I am hardly likely to include step by step instructions as to how to make safe.
The screwfix and iet forums are advertised as for the profession and if an ordinary person goes onto these and makes a mistake then it’s there own fault but where DIY is included in title we should assume the only training they have received is how to change a plug when they were at school etc.
My son came home from school quite upset where his teacher had told them there were two types of transistor could anyone tell him what they were.
He answered “Field effect and Bi-polar sir” and was told no they are NPN and PNP which is a sub-division of the Bi-polar with teachers like that who did not even know what a field effect transistor was in spite of them being invented first how much can we rely on the school education system?
And my father tells me when he was at school pre-war he was just taught the 3 R’s never quite worked out why writing and arithmetic were considered as R’s?
And to say red or brown wire caused some confusion and fuse or MCB or RCBO or even overload device seems to really upset people and you get “What is a MCB?”
Then we start to nit pick where someone says “Only in the kitchen, bathroom and outdoors does Part P apply” where they should have said “You only need to notify in the kitchen, bathroom and outdoors under Part P” most people realise Part P applies to all domestic premises. Even then we have to remember premises only include building to which title deeds would be issued so mobile homes, caravans, boats etc. are not premises and only building which are charged domestic council tax are included. And even then, only in England and Wales.
Which really shows how daft it can get, if we try to include all when giving advice. So when asked for example “Is it the red wires that should go to my bathroom light or the black one with red sleeve” should we simply answer black one with red sleeve or should we tell the poster all about Part P and the new 17th Edition and need to use RCD’s ect?
Reason I ask is I have been accused of giving dangerous advice which was basically I failed to list all the regulations involved and when a simple question was asked like can I replace my fuses with MCB’s answered “Yes” and did not list all the dangers and regulations and tests that should be carried out.
