Outside light switch odd behaviour...

[SplanK]

We have had our kitchen done, and I thought I would get 2 outside lights fitted so we could hide the cables in the wall and have them switchable so we can isolate them independently as and when needed.

So, bought 2x basic Wickes lights, simple PIR controlled units with 2 terminals, one live (which is switched by the PIR) and one neutral...

Gave the instructions to the sparky in how we wanted them fitting.

He completed the work last week, and I have just got back from Stratford and tested them out. I will simply refer to the lights as left and right with the switched wired as such. There is a single spur coming from the light ring main into a double switch socket, with 2 cables going out, one to each light


Left switch off = Left light on PIR control
Left switch on = Left light on (no PIR control)

Right switch off = Right light off
Right switch on = Right light on (no PIR control)

I am a touch confused, this is not what we asked for, and how the heck has he got the lights to function the way he has?! Due to a number of reasons, we will not be getting that sparky back (he was sub contracted by our kitchen fitter). I will be asking for somebody else to come and fix it, but just thought I would try and get my head around it....

I am not sure if the right light has a faulty PIR unit, or if the wiring prevents current getting to it (its wet outside so thought taking a multi meter to it was a bad idea!)

This is the rear of the double switch socket...

 

[Taylortwocities]

Three things

1. you havent said what the problem is!! Do the lights work, or not? Or does one light work differently to the other one?

2. How do/did you want them to work?

3. Need a better picture of where the wires go into the back of the switch.

 

[riveralt]

Unfortunately the picture is at slightly the wrong angle to see how everything is wired.
I assume you simply wanted the double gang switch to independently turn the PIR of each lamp on and off.
It looks as if he has brought the power in with twin and earth the brown (live ) going to the common on one switch (linked across the common on switch 2) and the blue going to the neutral block.
It looks as if he utilised two three core and earth to feed back out to the PIR's via the black cables (switch live) - greys (to the PIR neutral) have been added to the neutral loop. One hopes the earths to the earth loop as well.
For what I have described above that is all he need to do.
The question is what do the other two brown (3 core) wires do?

 

[Ahtyrrell]

By the sound of it he has wired the left light with the switch bypassing the PIR so you have a choice of PIR or ON with power constantly to the light/PIR
and on the right he has either wired it correctly and the reason its coming on is that most outdoor lights will be on for a period of time when first powered up.
Or he has wired the live to the switch live/slave terminal effectively bypassing the PIR so the light is just on or off like a normal light, another possibility is that the PIR is faulty on the right hand light

 

[Spark123]

The browns appear to be permanent live, it is a case of what is done at the other end as to how each light works.
The right light will probably be wired black L and grey N. Earth to the earth terminal.
The left light brown L, black swL and grey N. Earth to the earth terminal.

(You should also have brown sleeve on the black wire and blue sleeve on the greys)

 

[SplanK]

Ok, I have figured it out and despite the rubbish picture, you guys seem to have identified what I have found.

It looks like there is an "undocumented" feature in that there seems to be an additional live terminal within each light unit. This bypasses the PIR to switch on the light.

This is what the sparky has done, and I have SNAFU'ed the controls on the right PIR - it is now working as the left one does!

So we have 1 brown from the spur in, which goes into the top terminals, there "loop" wire which spans the top terminals, then 2 additional brown wires which go to the PIR live terminal. This is a constant live.

Then from the bottom of the switch are 2 black wires which go to this undocumented terminal on the lights which switches on the bulb without PIR interference.

The greys are natural from the lights, which then tap into the blue of the spur.

The reason why I was confused was because not only was it an undocumented feature, but this guy did not listen to us in what we wanted and had to repeat several jobs 2 or 3 times before he got it right (this particular job he had to re-do as he only put in a single switch which is what we didn't want)! In the end I just said we didn't want him back so I assumed that he had screwed up on this when in fact it was just wired in differently to what we expected (to be able to isolate the light, as in for it never to come on even on PIR, or to switch it on so it comes on with PIR only).

I can see how we can modify the wiring to do what we want, but going to keep as is and see how it goes!

Thanks for looking and your replies.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Yes.

To make it work as you would like:

TURN OFF THE POWER

remove the two black wires and put them into insulated terminal blocks (they will become live when the light comes on.

The two brown wires that come from the two 3 core & earth cables need to be moved to the places on teh switch where the two black wires were.
That should leave you with one brown wire (live feed) at the top of the switch with a link to the other half of the switch.

So the light will nopt operate with the switch off and will be on PIR if the switch is on.
If your PIR light has a "pulse over-ride" feature you should be able to make the light come on constantly by flicking the switch off then on again. See the instructions for your light to see if this is a feature.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Just to be picky, the electrician has also failed to identify the core colours of line and neutral conductors, so some sleeving of cables is required.