Part P building regs on a garage

[cheapaschips]

Hi,
i'm pretty comfortable that on the garage refurb i'm doing i'm within the rules for permitted devleopment rights in terms of not needing PP (2.5m height, less than 30m sq. brick built. and i'm now just going around the BR's. i've checked and i fall into the exemption categories - A to K , M and N which leaves me with Conservation of fuel and power and electrical safety. firstly - what does conservation of fuel and power mean. i've not got any heaters in there, and the flat roof is going to be insulated with kingspan. the windows will be double glazed units.The builder doing the work has an electrician coming in a few weeks to redo the wiring, the question i have, (and i may need to move this to the electrickery section i appreciate) if i want more going in than came out in terms of socket and an exterior PIR light. can i just get the electrician to do it to conform to the regs and he writes me up a cert of conformity or do i have to get the building regs man to approve the work before hand ? basically - do i need to bother building regs at all?

what came out when i stripped off the old asbestos cement corrugated roof was a circuit with 2 sets of sockets and a light fitting, i want to put the same back plus a couple more sockets and and exterior light next to the door.

Thanks

 

[noseall]

i've checked and i fall into the exemption categories - A to K , M and N

Que?

 

[DevilDamo]

So are you refurbishing an existing garage or replacing the existing with a new one?

 

[Richard C]

Glass must also conform to safety requirements as well, regardless if the garage is BR exempt.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

All electrical work must comply to part p of building regulations, if the work is done to BS7671:2008 this will assure it does also comply to part p.
If your electrician is registered with a domestic installers scheme provider,
link= http://www.competentperson.co.uk/
they will be able to self cert the work being carried out.
If they are not and the work is deemed notifiable, you or the electrician must notify this work to building controls before work is started, a fee is payable. so the work can be signed off.
With your description of the work, I assume that the garage is separate from the house and not integral.
Therefor I'd assume any upgrade will incorporate installing a garage consumer unit, new circuits, MCBs and RCD protection or RCBOs.
So will need to be notified by you or your sparks, again if he is registered competent person, he can notify and sign off for you, without BC fee.

 

[cheapaschips]

firstly thanks for the replies.
yes it is a separate garage. and when i say refurb i mean i'm taking down the original apex roof of asbestos concrete sheeting (which was originally 3.2m height) and building up the side walls up to a height of 2.5m and taking the point off the apex then putting a flat roof on, with kingspan fireproof insulation. bricking up the front doors and replacing the 4 windows and side door with new. boarding out, plastering and putting the electrics back in. currently they run from the consumer unit in the house to the garage in a steel conduit and then form the original circuits. i was going to ask the spark if he thinks it ought to be on a fresh consumer unit located in the garage itself.

( the garage sits about a metre behind the house 3.5m wide by 6.5m long, it was built in about 1940 and has a massive concrete base, double skin brick construction. they know how to build a garage in them days)

 

[DevilDamo]

Ok, that explains it a bit better So you're converting an existing detached garage/outbuilding to a habitable room?

If so, I believe these Building Reg's would apply...

Part A (Structure) - In the terms of providing footings under new walls where the existing garage door(s) were. However, you mentioned the existing garage is constructed off a concrete base so any existing doors/windows that need bricking up should be ok to sit on the existing slab, subject to a BCO's approval.

Part C (Site preparation and resistance to contaminates and moisture) - DPC's/DPM's, etc...

Part F (Ventilation) - Windows have to provide background ventilation as per the rates noted in Part F. I think (from memory) it's something like 1/5th of the floor area.

Part H (Drainage and waste disposal) - All new surface water drainage (if any) is to connect to the existing system/soakaways.

Part L (Conservation of fuel and power) - So basically, all new windows, doors, the existing floor, walls and roof would need to be upgraded with insulation to meet the current u-values.

Part N (Glazing) - Glazing in critical areas to be toughened glass, etc...

Part P (Electrical safety) - Basically, all new electrical work has to be carried out by a certified/competent person and would have to provide the necessary documentation upon completion of the work to present to the BCO.

To have a read yourself to see how and where the reg's apply, you can access the Approdved Documents here...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/en...gs/technicalguidance/bcapproveddocumentslist/

Your BCO may be more relaxed/strict on certain aspects. I've had both sorts on a job of mine before where the inspector came out at the beginning and at the end and job done, no problems. Another managed to come away from site (pre-completion inspection) with a snagging/outstanding items list of 10-15 points. We argued, agreed there were a few outstanding issues, but not to the extent he was talking about.

 

[cheapaschips]

devildamo, i don't quite understand. either i'm explaining myself badly, or i'm misunderstanding the portal.
i read the portal outbuilding section, and it said with regard to BR's

" If you want to put up small detached buildings such as a garden shed or summerhouse in your garden, building regulations will not normally apply if the floor area of the building is less than 15 square metres and contains NO sleeping accommodation.

If the floor area of the building is between 15 square metres and 30 square metres, you will not normally be required to apply for building regulations approval providing that the building contains NO sleeping accommodation and is either at least one metre from any boundary or it is constructed of substantially non-combustible materials."

My floor area is between 15 and 30 (about 20sq m), it is within 1m of boundary but not made of combustible materials (brick). there will not be sleeping accomodation and there will not be any water / heating facilities.

I comply with all of the above, so can you please explain why you think all of the regs you mention should apply.
i'm confident i comply with them all anyway, but from my reading of the regs, and my informal discussion with both planning and building regs folk at the council both of them said i didnt need anything.

i also went into the advanced section where it list reg's exepmtions for buildling types. mine is a class Vi - small building which as i said earlier is exempt from A to K, M and N but must comply with P - L does not apply to Stand-alone buildings other than dwellings with a total useful floor area of less than 50m² - (again - mine fits into this)

as for the original question about signing off of electrics (part P) - i'll make sure that the sparky is certified and get the appropriate ticketing from him when he's done.
would this suffice?

thanks

 

[DevilDamo]

But you're talking about refurbishing/converting, which does require Building Regulation approval.

If it's a new building, then you're right in what you said above. As for a conversion (to a habitable room), then you will need approval.

 

[noseall]

But you're talking about refurbishing/converting, which does require Building Regulation approval.

If it's a new building, then you're right in what you said above. As for a conversion (to a habitable room), then you will need approval.

Hence my que about "exemption categories".

 

[cheapaschips]

But you're talking about refurbishing/converting, which does require Building Regulation approval.

If it's a new building, then you're right in what you said above. As for a conversion (to a habitable room), then you will need approval.

Hence my que about "exemption categories".

Sorry for sounding thick here guys, but i've looked and looked and cannot find anything about refurbishment, can you point out in the regs where that's different?
and then - can you direct me to where the regs are required for conversion to habitable? and technically what is habitable? no-one will be living / sleeping in there. just useage ancilliary to domestic use as the rules say.

from what i read on the portal, it's within my permitted development rights. and the building regs man at the council pretty much said that too.

if this sounds like i'm wriggling to get out of doing anything, i'm not, but i don't want to open a major can of worms by being ignorant.

 

[jono_h]

I think there is some confusion due to the level of 'refurb'. Obviously once the door is bricked up it is no longer a garage, and very few of us would go to the trouble and expense of installing kingspan insulation or plastering a garage. This would explain why posters are assuming a conversion to a 'habitable room'.

Perhaps if you let us know what the room is to be used for, the advice can be more specific. For instance if you were going to use it as a utility room, and needed to run new drainage, then you're back in the realms of needing Building Regs. Posibly likewise if it's going to be a playroom for the kids. If it's just going to be a warm workshop where you tinker with your mower, then you'll be OK.

 

[cheapaschips]

hmm - what will we use it for...
well, I will probably put a run of kitchen units in, to store all of the rammel that kids gather over the years. also a lot of the wife's 'craft' stuff.
a table and char might go in there if she wants to use her craft stuff and my lad will probably use the space to make a decent scalextric layout every now and again. an i might do the odd airfix in there.

as i said when i explained all of this to our councils duty BR's man he said, it's just a garage. a posh garage, but at the end of the day a garage so i don't want to know about it.
i pressed him and said but i might put a carpet down. to which he replied, i know people with carpets in their garage. they have posh garages too.
i almost got the feeling that our local planning office was looking to shy away from the 'small fry'.

 

[DevilDamo]

can you direct me to where the regs are required for conversion to habitable? and technically what is habitable? no-one will be living / sleeping in there. just useage ancilliary to domestic use as the rules say.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/public/buildingwork/projects/workcommongarageconversion/

The conversion of a garage, or part of a garage, into habitable space will normally require approval under the Building Regulations.

Habitable space: A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces.

I tell you what I think is the issue here. If you were erecting a new garage/outbuilding, then that could fall within Permitted Development and become Building Reg's exempt. However, if you're converting an existing garage into habitable space, then you will require Building Reg's. If it will not be converted into habitable space, then Building Reg's will not be required as like you and your BCO mentioned, it's just a posh garage.

The reason why I have brought this up is because in your first post, you mentioned heaters, double glazed windows, insulation to the roof, etc... which you wouldn't necessarily provide if it wasn't going to be a habitable space.

However, your BCO verbally told you that he's not interested, which you could take his advice and proceed. If that BCO leaves and somebody else takes over, they may ask for an application based on what we have mentioned in this thread. And if you came to sell and the solicitor brought it up, you may again experience a few problems. If however you could have something in writing from the BCO, then I don't "think" you'll have any problems.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

I don't see a problem if the bco has said it's okay, it will/should be okay. You can ask for something in writing sometimes they co-operate sometimes they don't. I think your BCO is giving you a nod and a to get on with it.
But saying that still keep to the regulation, you never know one day you may consider converting it to a habitable room.
I do suggest that you do install a garage consumer unit with RCD protection.
and regardless of any other regulations part p will apply.