Part P, The Aftermath

[CallEdsFirst]

What's your opinion. A useful addition to the regulation of the electrical industry or a waste of paperwork and admin to make John Prescott look busy for the last few years?

Is the increase in certification a good thing? Does it stop cowboys? DIYers? Is it well advertised enough? Has all this been covered already and am I just wasting your time?

Post your thoughts now gentlemen!

 

[Chivers7]

Part P is a good idea though very badly advertised IMHO.

 

[danlightbulb]

A barrier to competant DIY'ers because it adds unnecessary expense, if you go by the book of course.

Maybe useful to ensure thorough testing of larger installations (like rewires), but for moving a plug socket in a kitchen refit - overkill in my opinion.


A cert doesn't guarantee good workmanship.

 

[securespark]

I have spoken to a BCO in Hampshire. She's seen all sorts of shenanigans on forms that does not add up. These are submitted by 5 day wonders....

So, part p does not stop shoddy workmanship we know that.

We also know that those being trained up are not competant.

 

[Chivers7]

If you work on gas and it leaks due to a bad join it smells and you know its unsafe, you also know that you've cocked up.

If you work on electricity and do a bad job it will normally work even if it is unsafe, for how long is anybodies guess but because it's not obvious to people that it maybe unsafe they perceive all is rosie and ok.

That's one major difference, if the governemnt took action and made people more aware of this fact and also that electrical faults can cause bad fires etc i think even expereinced DIYers would think twice about doing the work at pay someone to do the work.

 

[CallEdsFirst]

Is this a good enough reason for the dreaded "Government Infomation Video"?

"Meoiow Meeeeowow Miiioeeew. Charlie says alwasy tell your mummy/LABC before rewiring your house!"

How comes everyone knows about Corgi? Dont ever recall seeing an advert for that!

 

[danlightbulb]

Personally I think gas is more dangerous than electricity and worthy of the corgi regs.

The reason I think this is that most electrical faults on a circuit will trip the mcb's / rcd's thus offering major protection.

No way of tripping a gas supply.

 

[IJWS15]

Electricity stays in the wires unless you go and touch them (or something connected to them)

Gas will come out of the pipe if you let it.

Hence gas is much more dangerous!

 

[CallEdsFirst]

Never thought of it like that, all though we did discuss people switching off sockets to stop electrical juices leaking out!

Maybe there is a market for a gas MCB? Gas sensor in the house triggers solenoid valve type thing.

 

[Pensdown]

Has all this been covered already and am I just wasting your time?

Yes it has and yes you are but I'll take the bait

A useful addition to the regulation of the electrical industry or a waste of paperwork and admin to make John Prescott look busy for the last few years

IMO a long overdue addition to the building regs

Is the increase in certification a good thing

As far as I’m aware, the old IEE regs and BS-7671 have always called for the testing and certification of electrical installations so what extra certification are you talking about?

Does it stop cowboys

No, that's impossible but it does make them legally accountable for their actions.

Part P is a good idea though very badly advertised IMHO.

I agree although word is starting to get around

A barrier to competant DIY'ers because it adds unnecessary expense, if you go by the book of course.

IMO, for the competent Diyers PP has far fewer restrictions on what they can and can’t do without a building regs submission than most other parts of the building regs. And when you consider the implications of bad workmanship/design/materials on the occupants and future owners to me this is surprising.

I have spoken to a BCO in Hampshire. She's seen all sorts of shenanigans on forms that does not add up. These are submitted by 5 day wonders....

If the 5 day wonder sparks are making building reg submissions that are incorrect and they’re being picked up by BC surely that’s a step in the right direction?

So, part p does not stop shoddy workmanship we know that

Agreed, but as I said before, it does make tradesman accountable for their actions.

We also know that those being trained up are not competant

Although I partly agree, don't you think that’s a failing in the training and self certification vetting rather than PP?

Calledsfirst, forget small works and re-wires for a moment and think about the tens of thousands of new builds that are going up everywhere.

What would be the point of installing thicker and more efficient insulation only to see the sparks/Diyers cut 10 or so 70mm holes in the ceiling and then drag the insulation away from the holes to allow the lamps to run cool?

What would be the point of making the house wheelchair friendly only to find that the occupants couldn’t use the lights or plug anything into the sockets?

What would be the point of designing an energy efficient house only to find the sparks/Diyer has fitted hundreds of watts of lighting outside?

What would be the point of making escape easier if there was a fire only to find the occupants had died in their sleep because they were unaware there house was going up in flames?

And what would be the implications of notching or drilling huge holes in joists which had only been designed to be notched or dill in a specific way/place?

IMO the Part P document has changed the way that some DIY electrical work is done but for all of the right reasons. For the professional sparks who's been doing it right for years the only change is the submission to BC which takes about 2mins and costs less than £2.00

 

[Colin_p]

I totally disagree that there are of any use except of course if you are a registered electrician in which case they are a cash cow!

The fact is, you will never stop DIY happening and with Part P and the expense involved for simple alterations DIY is being driven underground.

Would I notify if I were doing some simple work, would I heck! Major work, yes, I'd gladly get someone in, but minor stuff, some of which falls under the regs no. (Preach all you like, it isn't that difficult!)

Personally I think the way it is implemented is wrong in that part P is based upon the BS, which is impossible to research and impossible to make informed decisions on. Part P seems to be the only part of the regs that is so obstructive and difficult unless of course you get your wallet out.

Far better would have been to make the information freely and openly available so that people can do their own research. Information detailing the consequences of when things go wrong would also be useful in that it may change the minds of people like myself. At least we could then make informed decisions knowing the facts.

As a punter, I feel like I'm being forced to go to that back street garage to have work done that I am perfectly capable of doing myself. Also some of the attitude I read on here propogates this feeeling.

As for back street garages and what is more dangerous;

People fixing their cars is the most dangerous thing.


I'm looking forward to reading responses to this from electrians with attitude!

 

[dingbat]

I have spoken to a BCO in Hampshire. She's seen all sorts of shenanigans on forms that does not add up. These are submitted by 5 day wonders...

Now, that's very interesting. The so-called five-day wonders are scheme members, are they not? In which case, having been assessed and found competent, they have no contact with Building Control at all; this is done via the scheme operator. No EIC details are passed on except the address and a summary of the work.

On the other hand, some LABCs will accept an EIC from a qualifed electrician as proof of compliance (still charging the building notice fee, of course). So, if she's seen any actual certificates they will almost certainly have been from the very 'electricians' who complain about the five-day wonders! (People who have not, in fact, been assessed by anybody recently, if you think about it!)

I've seen plenty of good and bad on both sides of the registered fence.

 

[CallEdsFirst]

Yes it has and yes you are but I'll take the bait

Whoa there! There was no bait!

As far as I’m aware, the old IEE regs and BS-7671 have always called for the testing and certification of electrical installations so what extra certification are you talking about?

I meant the increase in jobs that get certified because Part P exists, not the extra certificate per job!

Calledsfirst, forget small works and re-wires for a moment and think about the tens of thousands of new builds that are going up everywhere.

I have a lot of experience in new homes (ensuring the accessories are up to spec) as it goes and they have to be installations of the worst kind! Always a real mess in my opinion! They don't call them housebashers for nothing! They might conform by the skin of their teeth, but I wouldnt hold them up as an example for all electricians to aspire to!

But, I have to ask, what is the point in all your examples?

 

[dingbat]

The fact is, you will never stop DIY happening and with Part P

Never intended.

You can build your whole house from scratch including all services if you wish; but you have to do it properly.

part P is based upon the BS, which is impossible to research and impossible to make informed decisions on. Part P seems to be the only part of the regs that is so obstructive and difficult unless of course you get your wallet out.

'Reasonable provision' is what Part P requires. The document that lays out the requirements applies to all; DIY-er, or professional. Have you actually read the Building Regulations and the Approved Documents? Did you not notice how they all refer to many other British Standards and codes of practice?

Far better would have been to make the information freely and openly available

It is. You can buy British Standards and there are many text books and guides to the regs on the market.

As a punter, I feel like I'm being forced to go to that back street garage to have work done that I am perfectly capable of doing myself.

No. You are required to do, or have the work done, to a set of minimum standards. How you go about it and how you pay for it is up to you.

I'm looking forward to reading responses to this from electrians with attitude!

Oh, I see you've pre-judged the issue.

 

[Paul Barker]

To an extent part P should improve things. Despite the fact it has always been necessary to inspect and test your work, prior to forced accountability, some people were not doing so. In the heating industry no proper test equipment was in use prior to part P, and worse still, sometimes you still come across a cylinder stat where the single insulated circuit protective conductor is used to carry one of the connections (because in Y plan you need three live connections on a cylinder stat). I have even come across this with a metal cased (Class 1) cylinder stat.

No I think part P is a good thing. The sooner everyone gets on board the better.