Phev batteries

[IT Minion]

If we consider the whole process, from mining the resources to disposing of the car at the end of its life, an ICE vehicle pollutes a lot less.
An ICE vehicle will do many more miles, possibly it won't be returned or scrapped after 3 years lease, so popular nowadays and most parts will be reused by scrappy or recycled.
This doesn't happen with EV.

The reason you are struggling to convince people is that you're wrong, perhaps on all points but definitely several.

EVs are simpler so should last longer (as a chassis/vehicle). The batteries might or might not last a million miles, but they are recyclable and are being recycled now. No EV is scrapped after three years.

But mostly, EVs pollute a lot less than ICEs when you include production and running, and it's getting more pronounced over time as the battery production keeps getting cleaner and the grid cleaner.

 

[johnny2007]

The reason you are struggling to convince people is that you're wrong, perhaps on all points but definitely several.

EVs are simpler so should last longer (as a chassis/vehicle). The batteries might or might not last a million miles, but they are recyclable and are being recycled now. No EV is scrapped after three years.

But mostly, EVs pollute a lot less than ICEs when you include production and running, and it's getting more pronounced over time as the battery production keeps getting cleaner and the grid cleaner.

You're not convincing anyone.
Ask the people (slaves) mining the resources to produce the batteries.
Then, how many EV older than 5/6 years you see on the road?
A few prius (hybrid) older than that have batteries that have 10% efficiency left, ask mini cab drivers.
Most if not all EV on the road now are on a lease, so in 3 years will be given back to fill the EV graveyards.
If I had to buy one of these things, why would I buy a used 3 year old one when I could lease a brand new EV risk free?
Differently, many people still own their ICE vehicles and buy them 2nd hand.
Look how many 15+ year old cars are on the road.
The fact that they're imposing EV on us by putting the fuel price up, congestion charge, ulez, double parking charges, road tax up, etc, doesn't mean that they're green.
Again, you have very limited vision.
You look at the exhaust localised pollution instead of global pollution.
Central London might get better air quality, but at a great cost for the planet.
Globally the production of these blood stained electric boxes are polluting a lot more than ICE vehicles.
But, as we now live in an era of selfishness, as long as our immediate surroundings are fine, we feel happy.
Screw the rest of the world!

 

[IT Minion]

Then, how many EV older than 5/6 years you see on the road?

That's an interesting question. in 2016 there were 37,000 EVs sold in the full year. In December 2021 alone there were 30,000. I wouldn't expect to see many old EVs as there just weren't that many made or sold.

Now the second most popular car in the UK is an EV.

 

[johnny2007]

That's an interesting question. in 2016 there were 37,000 EVs sold in the full year. In December 2021 alone there were 30,000. I wouldn't expect to see many old EVs as there just weren't that many made or sold.

Now the second most popular car in the UK is an EV.

Yes, the second most popular car in the UK is an EV ON LEASE.
Down the scrappy in 3 years time.
At the same time, China is pumping rubbish into the atmosphere to fulfill our wish to be green.
Do you grasp the concept?
The planet is not only a horizontal mile radius from where you are, it's the entire planet, including hundreds of miles beneath your feet and hundreds of miles above your head.
It's a living things that suffers if one part is going wrong.
Think about when you hurt your little toe, the rest of the body suffers, not just the toe.

 

[IT Minion]

Yes, the second most popular car in the UK is an EV ON LEASE.
Down the scrappy in 3 years time.
At the same time, China is pumping rubbish into the atmosphere to fulfill our wish to be green.
Do you grasp the concept?
The planet is not only a horizontal mile radius from where you are, it's the entire planet, including hundreds of miles beneath your feet and hundreds of miles above your head.
It's a living things that suffers if one part is going wrong.
Think about when you hurt your little toe, the rest of the body suffers, not just the toe.

All cars are bought mostly on lease now.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

All cars are bought mostly on lease now.

Which is a very expensive way to own/run a car.

 

[IT Minion]

Which is a very expensive way to own/run a car.

It is. I'm definitely in the nearly new second hand market for my car's, but there's so few EVs available and they hold their value so well I'm stuck with my old Diesel for the foreseeable.

On topic: Unless the car you want only does a PHEV model then I wouldn't bother. They cost more to buy, more to own and are much more complex than either an EV or an ICE.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It is. I'm definitely in the nearly new second hand market for my car's, but there's so few EVs available and they hold their value so well I'm stuck with my old Diesel for the foreseeable.

On topic: Unless the car you want only does a PHEV model then I wouldn't bother. They cost more to buy, more to own and are much more complex than either an EV or an ICE.

The limited range and towing ability is the killer for me. I too will be sticking to me diesel for the foreseeable. An EV at the door for the short runs, but with my free use of buses, I simply could not justify one.

 

[norseman]

I'm with 'Johnny 2007' on the 15+ years life of ICE cars. My two have a combined age of 58 years, so I reckon the pollution resulting from their manufacture has been well justified already & both are still serving me well

 

[IT Minion]

I'm with 'Johnny 2007' on the 15+ years life of ICE cars. My two have a combined age of 58 years, so I reckon the pollution resulting from their manufacture has been well justified already & both are still serving me well

The thing is that ICE cars don't cause much pollution when they're built, but in the 58 years they've produced a huge amount of CO2, as well as NOX etc.

At a rough guess somewhere around 87-150 tons of CO2 would have been produced by your reliable old machines just doing average miles. Which is pretty shocking really.

Batteries used to take around 60Kg of CO2 per kWh in 2016 (it's better now but let's give the benefit of the doubt). A decent sized 60kWh battery would produce 3.6 tons of CO2. That's a hell of a lot less. The miles they've done will also have had some CO2 cost, but it's way, way less than Petrol or Diesel.

The battery would have been replaced during that time, but it's be recycled at much lower cost to the environment and lower CO2.

 

[johnny2007]

The thing is that ICE cars don't cause much pollution when they're built, but in the 58 years they've produced a huge amount of CO2, as well as NOX etc.

At a rough guess somewhere around 87-150 tons of CO2 would have been produced by your reliable old machines just doing average miles. Which is pretty shocking really.

Batteries used to take around 60Kg of CO2 per kWh in 2016 (it's better now but let's give the benefit of the doubt). A decent sized 60kWh battery would produce 3.6 tons of CO2. That's a hell of a lot less. The miles they've done will also have had some CO2 cost, but it's way, way less than Petrol or Diesel.

The battery would have been replaced during that time, but it's be recycled at much lower cost to the environment and lower CO2.

So you think that the fuel used in 58 years pollutes more than 20 electric blood stained boxes?!?!
Let me break the latest news to you very gently...
Now, sit down and take a deep breath...
Here it comes...
You are on planet earth, the blue planet in the solar system, in the milky way galaxy.

 

[JohnD]

Down the scrappy in 3 years time

I'm surprised you think there are no used cars in UK.

 

[norseman]

The thing is that ICE cars don't cause much pollution when they're built, but in the 58 years they've produced a huge amount of CO2, as well as NOX etc.
At a rough guess somewhere around 87-150 tons of CO2 would have been produced by your reliable old machines just doing average miles. Which is pretty shocking really.
Batteries used to take around 60Kg of CO2 per kWh in 2016 (it's better now but let's give the benefit of the doubt). A decent sized 60kWh battery would produce 3.6 tons of CO2. That's a hell of a lot less. The miles they've done will also have had some CO2 cost, but it's way, way less than Petrol or Diesel.
The battery would have been replaced during that time, but it's be recycled at much lower cost to the environment and lower CO2.

I can't argue with your calculations as I don't have access to the data & frankly don't care either. Any microscopic contribution I could make to the world's environment by changing to an EV would be cancelled out in a Nano-second by the emissions produced by air travel, Chinese coal fired power stations etc. My cars' annual emission levels won't cause me any sleepless nights, but the financial commitment associated with PPL or credit agreements necessary for EV ownership certainly would.

Frankly this is about my comfort zone, the rest of this hypocritical world is free to make it's own decisions.

 

[IT Minion]

I can't argue with your calculations as I don't have access to the data & frankly don't care either. Any microscopic contribution I could make to the world's environment by changing to an EV would be cancelled out in a Nano-second by the emissions produced by air travel, Chinese coal fired power stations etc. My cars' annual emission levels won't cause me any sleepless nights, but the financial commitment associated with PPL or credit agreements necessary for EV ownership certainly would.

Frankly this is about my comfort zone, the rest of this hypocritical world is free to make it's own decisions.

As long as you reconsider your position on your cars being green because they're old then I'm happy. Every mile they do is worse than a mile in an EV.

As I mentioned earlier I'm still driving a Diesel because they don't make sense for me financially. That's due in around 2025 when they'll reach parity for purchase price. But I'm fully aware that it'd be better if I did have an EV.

 

[IT Minion]

So you think that the fuel used in 58 years pollutes more than 20 electric blood stained boxes?!?!

You honestly think all those Teslas are going to be scrapped in three years? You might want to try calming down perhaps breath into a paper bag?