Phev batteries

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I've always been a fan of larger cars, currently owning an old 4x4 V8 & a straight 6 saloon as a daily. However we are both retired now, our annual mileage is low (7k miles pre. pandemic restrictions) more like 3k now & the majority of journeys can be less than 5 miles (one way)
I have been thinking of a plug-in hybrid as we have off-street parking & these stupid short trips could be achieved just on the battery, but our budget would only run to a car that was several years old.

Now for the daft question ... given that the motive battery would be partially depleted with age & replacement would mean a financial write off, would the car continue to be a viable proposition using just the engine when the battery finally ceases to be up to the task ?
 
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They're quite a lot more expensive than an ordinary hybrid, and if you don't do many miles your fuel savings may not repay the difference. The big batteries add a lot of weight and degrade performance. I had a test drive in a PHEV and it was tuned to accelerate fairly well 0 to 60 (for the advertising figure) but had very little puff above that, e.g. if you wanted to overtake on a motorway. It also had no underfloor storage or spare wheel.

Carrying a heavy battery around when it is degraded would be uneconomical

Tech is moving so fast that a used car may not match latest versions

Oddly, some cars one or two years old sell for more than list price of a brand-new one (on 4 to 6 months delivery). A motive battery should still be about 90% power.

You can get 5% to 15% discounts on new car orders via brokers if you are willing to wait for delivery. I'm in no hurry and recently ordered one.

Do you have a model in mind?

I know someone who had a Juke, which is tallish but quite small and a pretend jeep.

Quashkai, Sportage and RAV4 are biggish and very similar to each other. Reputedly the Toyota has best reliability. They may do 50mpg on self-charge petrol hybrid but cannot be plugged in. You can get decorative steps/running boards but unless you have very little legs they are not necessary.

Electric 4x4 option on an SUV adds a couple of £thou. Do you actually need it? It may double towing capacity.

Genuine offroad 4x4 electrics are very very heavy.
 
Thanks for the reply John.
My idea is only at the embryo stage & may never come to fruition, so I've not even thought about a make/model. People who have known me for decades cannot believe that I'm even considering a 'milk float' but our short journeys are playing hell with the BM's petrol consumption & are really bad for the engine, especially in winter.
 
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My advice: keep your nice car and once a week treat yourself to a blast on motorway and some high rev cornering on country lanes.
Make it a Wednesday morning thing just for you.
The car will benefit from it and you'll get some buzz.
You'll find nice pubs to have lunch or cafs for a cuppa and it will become a habit.
Try it (y)
 
Would two cars be out of the question? If not, and elderly pure electric, like a Leaf for the short runs, plus a conventional car? I tend to think of hybrids as a "worst of both worlds" solution, lugging both powertrains around with you.
 
Would two cars be out of the question? If not, and elderly pure electric, like a Leaf for the short runs, plus a conventional car? I tend to think of hybrids as a "worst of both worlds" solution, lugging both powertrains around with you.

That could be a solution ... an elderly Leaf to go with the elderly pair that would be driving it, whilst retaining the classic for longer journeys.
Thank you for the thought.
 
Buy as new as you can, the technology gets better literally by the day, apparently the million mile battery is imminent, and it probably won't be many years till the aftermarket industry gets involved.
 
Buy as new as you can, the technology gets better literally by the day, apparently the million mile battery is imminent, and it probably won't be many years till the aftermarket industry gets involved.

Thanks for that input, taking everyone's advice I think we will be sticking to what we have for bit longer, whilst watching the market & developing technology.

Here's a thought for the day ... from the many EV (not hybrid) road test reports I've read over the past few months every scribe bangs on about the model's range whilst never once commenting on how good (or otherwise) the climate control/screen defrosting is, things we take for granted from a normal water cooled IC engine & such important features now that winter is upon us.
 
From a customer of mine (who's turned 70) the heating in his brand new PHEV is rubbish...it might have a heated steering wheel and seats but your feet freeze.
Have a google...there's a Nissan Leaf with a small diesel heater in the boot :LOL:
 
Just read about EV in USA and the report says each battery charge takes 65 pounds of coal or 6 barrels of oil, not saying I believe that, however it does seem EV's are not environmental friendly, so only reason is if it suits you.

The local milkman bought one, claimed range of 100 miles, never used heater, round was 64 miles, and he had to be recovered a number of times. Also seems to be a problem with safe home charging with PME/TN-C-S supplies.

In the main they are 4 x 4 as motors built into wheels, I do have a mobility scooter, and e-bike, but not a full blown car. Think the term EV is rather silly as it covers all. But I looked at where I work and the two 22 kW charge points and thought that's good, until I read more and found many cars even with a 22 kW charge point can only charge at 7 kW, seems car only uses one phase of the three available.

We have three cars, the Sorento uses most fuel around 55 MPG, however the little Jazz is not much better, the Jaguar XE is the best, as long as you watch tyre pressures. But at 55 - 65 MPG not really worth changing to reduce running costs. Jag is wife's and the Sorento was got to tow caravan, which has now gone, but not enough difference in running cost Jazz to Sorento to be worth getting rid of the Sorento, and we do tow trailers from time to time, and it seems most electric cars will not tow trailers, even the Jag has a 1800 towing capability, the Sorento is 3000.

Looked at charge points, and cost to fit a 32 amp socket is around £75 and a charger under £300 so you can set up charging reasonably cheap, but to fit a wall mounted charger for use outside the price rockets, and to get grants you need to use a registered installer. So the cost is around 3 times the cost of simple 32 amp socket.

The problem is safety, the 6 mA DC detection and auto earth disconnection with loss of PEN are not there with the simple plug in types, OK if your charging in your garage, not if charging outside. When will the first case of some one getting a shock by touching a car on charge come to court?

My house has a 60 amp supply, common with any house wired in the 80's when the Wylex fuse box with 60 amp main isolator was the norm. The first few in the street can normally up-grade, until the DNO realises it does not have the supply to allow any more. With some charge units they can monitor house use, and turn down the charger when rest of house using a lot, but this depends how much you pay for the charger to start with.

What worries me, is once the problems are realised, what new laws will be passed? Bit like electric gates, until a child was crushed to death we saw electric gates everywhere, now most are disconnected as don't comply.
 
From a customer of mine (who's turned 70) the heating in his brand new PHEV is rubbish...it might have a heated steering wheel and seats but your feet freeze.
Have a google...there's a Nissan Leaf with a small diesel heater in the boot :LOL:

No reason why a diesel heater shouldn't work well. My diesel has one, slightly larger than a house brick and 5Kw output and warms my car up quickly, whilst still sat on the drive, if I turn it on. Other than turning it on, it kicks in automatically if I start the car and the outdoor ambient is below 10C and the coolant is below 75C, to speed up warm up once on the road.
 
No reason why a diesel heater shouldn't work well. My diesel has one, slightly larger than a house brick and 5Kw output and warms my car up quickly, whilst still sat on the drive, if I turn it on. Other than turning it on, it kicks in automatically if I start the car and the outdoor ambient is below 10C and the coolant is below 75C, to speed up warm up once on the road.
The point is more why have a diesel heater if whole idea of electric car is not to use diesel? I can see the point in a very small battery to gain energy when slowing down to use it again when speeding up, I can also see the problems with a mechanical drive train when pulling heavy weights, the diesel/electric used in many railway engines makes sense. I can also see the point in a small liquid fuel engine to extend the range of an electric vehicle, same with solar panel on the roof. I can also see the point to be able to switch to electric in congested cities and tunnels.

Both my wife and I have ebikes, hers is mid engine and drives through the gears, mine is built into the rear wheel, they are very different to each other, on the flat both are equal, but on inclines mine if it can't maintain 6 MPH starts to loose torque, so I reach a point where I can't go fast enough to balance well before hers. So I have to get off and walk before her.

The same applies to many electric vehicles, so quirk with one make means it does not preform anywhere near what the market leaders do. For example we read about 22 kW charge points, but few point out many cars can only use 7 kW even if the point can deliver 22 kW, range is another point, for a van used at low speed delivering milk on the Wirral, with heaters off, when the range is claimed at 100 miles, should not have a problem with a less than 70 mile round. But it did.
I looked at fuel consumption of a Vauxhaul, they worked out how far it would go on one litre of fuel starting with fully charged battery and ending with fully discharged battery. Then times the figure by 4.54 to get miles per gallon, but the battery is not 4.54 larger, so it could have never done that many miles on a gallon.

If you took the range on a tank full, and divided that by gallons in the tank, one came up with a very different figure. Which was not as good as the non electric version, so why bother with the electric?

The whole reason for using electric is the way it is taxed or not taxed by the government, and the way the licensing laws work, it has nothing to do with saving the planet. My ebike is really the same as a moped, slightly slower than my old P50 Honda due to law, but around same power and same range. But moped not allowed on tow paths, or cycle paths, and I need a licence, I got ebike when I became 70 and it took from Jan to Oct for the DVLA to renew my licence. It ran out in March.

The whole ebike thing is also silly, if built before a date it can have a throttle, but not after that date, but unlike a car, there are no documents saying when built, so my second hand ebike has a throttle, and even I don't know if legal as no idea of how old it is.

We have the same with EV charging points, regulations have been made to ensure they are safe, but the regulations are not a legal requirement, so touching an EV on charge could be lethal, we simply don't know, unlikely any commercial charge points have an issue, but domestic is another story.
 
Just read about EV in USA and the report says each battery charge takes 65 pounds of coal or 6 barrels of oil, not saying I believe that, however it does seem EV's are not environmental friendly, so only reason is if it suits you.
I've been trying to convince people that measuring pollution at the exhaust is wrong, but the Prius drivers feel they're saving the planet and don't want to hear otherwise.
If we consider the whole process, from mining the resources to disposing of the car at the end of its life, an ICE vehicle pollutes a lot less.
An ICE vehicle will do many more miles, possibly it won't be returned or scrapped after 3 years lease, so popular nowadays and most parts will be reused by scrappy or recycled.
This doesn't happen with EV.
So before you buy an EV to save the planet, check it out, especially the slavery going on in lithium and cobalt mines.
If you just like an EV and don't care about slavery and pollution, by all means, buy one.
However, consider this: it takes me less than 5 minutes to "recharge" my 3.0L V6 so I can drive 400 miles.
Can an EV do that?
Would you find yourself stuck because you need to wait for the EV to recharge?
If not, go for it.
 
I'm with the doubters here, due to both my penchant for V8 & straight 6 ICE's & the optimistic 'save-the-planet' figures.
I recall a study carried out back in the early days of EV's which came to the conclusion that the 'whole life' emissions of a 4.0ltr. Jeep Cherokee was actually less than a Prius !
Whilst I can see the practicality of an EV for my partner & myself, the reports of the car's real-world abilities make actual ownership less likely.
All this is academic for us anyway as the financial burden of such a purchase is beyond our means.

So it seems I will continue to enjoy that V8 tail-pipe burble or the growl from the 6. Alas we all have our crosses to bear :whistle:
 
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