Planning permission with permitted development bits in it

[Steve Q]

I'd appreciate if someone could see if I'm missing something, or just confirm what I suspect...

In short, it seems like the council can refuse a planning application because of parts that would be permitted development on their own, even if the other elements would be fine. Is that really right? Is there something I'm missing?

Here's a bit more detail: I'd like to convert our loft, certainly including a full rear dormer and a hip to gable conversion. Our house is lovely but a bit on the small side (which is why we want the loft conversion in the first place) so both of those are really needed to get a useable space. Those are permitted development and so if that's all I wanted then that'd be the end of it.

But, to get the best use of the new space, I think it'd be helpful to have a front dormer too. Certainly, this would need full planning permission. I know that these are usually refused for front dormers, but I've checked the guidance from our council (the Residential Design Supplementary Planning Document) and actually they're sometimes allowed, so long as they satisfy certain conditions e.g. they're only as wide as the windows, and line up with windows on lower floors. Permission certainly wouldn't be guaranteed but I'd stand a chance and I'd be happy to give it a shot.

Here's the complication: That same guidance document also says that hip to gable roofs on one side of a semi (as in my case) aren't allowed, and maybe even the same for the rear dormer. Obviously that can't override PD, but as I understand it if I applied for planning permission for all three changes (modest front dormer, full rear dormer and hip to gable) then they could refuse it for the hip to gable.

That leaves me in the odd situation that the council are OK with one thing (modest front dormer) but not another (the PD stuff) ... so I can only the thing they're not OK with! What's more, if I did them as physically separate steps (i.e. went ahead and build just the PD stuff then applied for front dormer after that) then I'd stand a chance after all. That seems like crazy bureaucracy at its finest! Is that really right? Is there no way round it? Short of building it in two steps, which I'm not going to do!

 

[^woody^]

No, the council can't refuse an application if parts of the work would be PD, but something which it's PD may be contrary to the council's planning policies and so would be refused if applied for. The two situations are different.

Normally, contentious work should be done under PD if possible and permission sought for the remainder. But this means that the PD work must be completed (at least externally) first before applying for permission for the other work.

 

[Steve Q]

Thanks a lot woody.

I don't really understand the bit at the start, "the council can't refuse an application if parts of the work would be PD", that seems to contradict what you wrote later in the same sentence. I think I'm just reading it too literally and you probably meant the council can't refuse something if all parts would be PD?

The rest of what you said confirms what I thought, sadly. It's a pity because doing the PD work first wouldn't be practical at all in my case (huge extra delay and cost, and of course the application could be refused so that would all go to waste).

 

[^woody^]

It is not a valid reason for an application to be refused on the basis of some or all of it being PD.