Planning permission?

[mackandmutley]

Have just broken up the concrete driveway on my front garden ready to change it to a larger parking area with gravel finish. A couple of questions please regarding the planning permission on permeable driveways.

1] the new surface will be approx twice the surface area of the previous but the previous was concrete and the new will be 20mm gravel over a lean mix of concrete.

2] the driveway is surrounded on both sides by plant borders approx 2 foot wide which will allow drive to drain off on sides

3] the frontage will drain onto the road which is a private road which is made of type 1/ road planings which is maintained by residents of the road

The question is should I have got planning permssion or would the council not be interested because it is a private road which is in effect an unmade road ?

 

[Thermo]

double check with the council as to the legality regarding going onto an unadopted road. Basically if you provide a method of drainage to stop the water going on to the highway, ie drainage channels, slope towards a bed etc etc, then the drive is counted as a permitted development

 

[spongobongo]

Mack,

There are numerous issues arising from the new planning rules introduced last October, not least the issue of paving over front gardens and replacing drives/hard surfaces. The truth is that most planning departments have under-resourced enforcement teams and they probably won't give a monkeys about your drive unless one of your neighbours makes an issue of it.

My understanding is that a hard surface needs to drain to a point within the curtilage of the dwelling. That means there must be a method of drainage on your land for all of the surface water. If the natural fall of the hard surface is towards the road (unmade or not) then I don't see how the two flower beds either side of the drive will act as an effective soakaway.

So, in my opinion, the answer to your $64,000 question is:

Yes, you need planning permission.

If you're a laid back sort of chap with time on your hands then you could just finish the work, wait for four years, and then apply for a lawful development certificate instead.

For the record, I work in the busiest development control team in the country.

 

[^woody^]

If you're a laid back sort of chap with time on your hands then you could just finish the work, wait for four years, and then apply for a lawful development certificate instead.

I'd be a bit more laid back ... do the work, and then continue to lay back.

Who in their right mind is going to apply for LDC for a drive they laid four years ago? Who is going to be bothered?

And if my local planners have got the time to check up on drives done since October, then I would certainly want to know why - and if it is money well spent

 

[spongobongo]

Who in their right mind is going to apply for LDC for a drive they laid four years ago? Who is going to be bothered?

Someone selling their house to an overzealous buyer with an annoying conveyancing solicitor. I deal with LDCs for replacement windows and replacement roof tiles!

And if my local planners have got the time to check up on drives done since October, then I would certainly want to know why - and if it is money well spent

So if someone built a drive that drained onto your prize rose bed in your front garden, you'd shoot the friendly planning officer sent to sort it out?

 

[^woody^]

So if someone built a drive that drained onto your prize rose bed in your front garden, you'd shoot the friendly planning officer sent to sort it out?

I would have to accept the rain water run-off under established commom law, and deal with it myself. It would not be a planning issue

And indemnity policies are cheaper and quicker than applying for an LDC. Better still is a firm rebuttle of these types of nonsense attempts to reduce sale prices

 

[spongobongo]

I would have to accept the rain water run-off under established commom law, and deal with it myself. It would not be a planning issue

No. Planning law makes it a planning issue. Look at Schedule 2, Part 1, Class F of the General Permitted Development Order 2008 if you don't believe me.

The common law issue is entirely different and is not a planning consideration.

And indemnity policies are cheaper and quicker than applying for an LDC.

What, cheaper than £85? And what insurer is going to indemnify a householder when planning permission is clearly required? Indemnity policies are usually sought when deeds, covenants, planning permissions or LDCs are untraceable, not when the owner can't be bothered to apply for them.

Better still is a firm rebuttle of these types of nonsense attempts to reduce sale prices

On that we can agree.


Anyway, we're in danger of losing sight of the OP's original question. So I'll say it again:

1) You need planning permission if you want peace of mind.
2) Your local planning department probably won't want to be bothered by a triviality such as this.
3) Although enforcement action is subject to the test of expediency and is at the Council's discretion, if a neighbour complains, then the council has a duty to send out an enforcement officer to make an initial inspection.
4) In all likelihood, the enforcement officer will 'invite' you to make an application for planning permission which, of course, may or may not be granted.
5) If permission is refused (and all appeal options exhausted) you'll have to rip up your nice new driveway.

 

[^woody^]

5) If permission is refused (and all appeal options exhausted) you'll have to rip up your nice new driveway.

Or put a £4.99 gully hopper into it.

Bottom line, is that the inclusion of driveways into planning legislation is an ill-thought out joke.

There are more holes in the regulations and its' interpretation, than there are in a permeable driveway.

And it is unfair on the planners who have to try and legitimise this nonsense, and treat it as they do other applications - and its painful to see them try.

There are that many get outs, that enforcement is unlikely and probably impossible