Planning Permission

[LLCoolDL]

Dear All,

I am looking for some advice on planning permission.

I live in a semi-detached bungalow that has previously been converted in to a chalet. Its a very ugly house and the conversions look like add ons. The attached building is still ground floor only but has an extension to the rear (4m), as does mine (but by 5.25m). The existing roof is a hip roof on both halves of the semi. Our other neighbor that we are not connected to has already had a similar extension to the one we have proposed but its not quiet as big. Our road has a lot of different house sizes and shapes, there is not one house the same as a neighbor for 11 houses in a row and this is only broken because of 2 identical new build detached houses.

I engaged an architect to draw plans for developing the first floor to make it as large as we could. He has increased the dorma at the front, made it a gable end roof and extended over most of the first floor extension.

We agreed plans, we applied for planning and it has just been rejected.

I have spoken to the head of planning in my area and it seems that the refusal is based on opinion. That's my first question, can they reject just on opinion of not liking it?

Positive points were that they have no problem with the depth of the extension nor the front aspect of the extension and that they will not object to the gable end as there is precedence along the street.

The objections are the "bulkiness of the rear extension" but more specifically the side aspect (left side elevation) is too imposing and finally that there is too much flat roof.

I am confused by this because

1) There is more existing flat roof at the rear of the house than on the new proposal. Whilst it is still evident there is a flat roof it is not visible due to the proposed pitch roof.

2) The house in its current form is ugly and unsightly and the proposed development significantly improves on this (In my opinion)

3) The wall on our neighbors house that mirrors the left side elevation is a mass of render and a larger area of render than I have proposed, though I do see that I am looking to build one very large wall. I believes that we had already addressed this potential concern by using two different materials for the construction.

4) A 5 bedroom £650,000 house has just been erected 5 foot from my garden fence that is higher than my house and is simply a mass of red brick.

Speaking to a friend he believes my architect should be trying to argue these points with the guys at planning. Can I argue my points with them? Will it do any good? Is there anything else I should be doing?

I read on the government's website that as of August this year that planning permission is not allowed to be refused without the planning office first discussing with the applicant. I read that in the Procedural Guide - Planning appeals and called-in planning applications - England.Given they did not discuss with us before refusing is there anything I can do?

Finally one last piece of information... They have proposed that I make a pitched roof at the side with a dorma in it. I can't imagine that looking anything other than horrific?!

Besides the couple of scattered questions I am really just looking for any advice anyone can give me.

Here is a photo of the plans (I don't think its very clear but I cant do any better at the moment).

Untitled

• LLCoolDL
• 2 Dec 2013
• 1

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

A good designer will be speaking with planning through the latter stages of the 8 weeks to gauge how the app has been received and then negotiating with the authority (if appropriate) to get an approval through. He was a bit of a Muppet if he just sat back and did not speak to them between submission and rejection.

As a side issue I’m not sure the proposed is any better in my opinion. I am also inclined to agree with the planners conclusion that it is overdeveloped at the rear and too much flat roof.

When something steps outside of the standard Local Plan guidance then opinion matters. By your argument then anything outside of the standard guidance could get through.

You cannot argue the points now as it has already been rejected. You would have to re-submit the application (which is free).

 

[LLCoolDL]

Hi Freddy,

A good designer will be speaking with planning through the latter stages of the 8 weeks to gauge how the app has been received and then negotiating with the authority (if appropriate) to get an approval through. He was a bit of a Muppet if he just sat back and did not speak to them between submission and rejection.
Agreed - doesn't help me now though

As a side issue I’m not sure the proposed is any better in my opinion. I am also inclined to agree with the planners conclusion that it is overdeveloped at the rear and too much flat roof.

I'm asking for advice on procedure and trying to understand how similar developments have been allowed to go forward yet mine rejected (including my neighbor?). I hear what you are saying about too much flat roof... but its less than it has now and I actually want less roof, which is why I asked for the pitched roof line.

When something steps outside of the standard Local Plan guidance then opinion matters. By your argument then anything outside of the standard guidance could get through.

How does my plan step outside of standard Local plan guidance? Where do I find the local plan guidance? As a side note I'm not arguing that at all?

You cannot argue the points now as it has already been rejected. You would have to re-submit the application (which is free).

Yes I understand that but I need to work out what to resubmit and that can involve discussions with the planners to work a way forward

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You will need to find your Local Plan and read it. It sets out local planning policies and how applications are judged. Phone your planning department and ask them to send you the links to it. It will undoubtedly be online somewhere and theoretically you should be able to find it from your local Authority’s website but inevitably they are a complete nightmare to find usually.

You could speak with the actual officer who rejected your application and discuss with him how to get it through on the resubmission. It’s not really for them to design your application but you will have to see if there is a version of what you have submitted that still meets your requirements and will be supported by them on resubmission. Or if you think you are right you can appeal it.

 

[LLCoolDL]

Thanks Freddy.

Our local planning policy ran out in 2009, they are in the process of updating it... have been for 3 years!

The current policy (as of 2006) does not define anything, it makes simple statements inline with national policy along the lines of:

"The Local Planning Authority will expect new housing schemes and alterations/extensions to existing housing to be to a high standard of layout and design"

Which mean absolutely nothing!

 

[Architexeter]

You need to look for the Local Authority's Supplementary Planning Guidance.

There should be an SPD for extensions and this is what the planners are judging it against.

I think the scheme looks fine except for the first floor rear with the large flat roof. Can you loose the small bedroom at the rear and do a dual pitch with a gable facing down the garden with one room in this rear part of the roof?

Front looks great with hip to gable (which alone could be PD (volume limit)).

 

[LLCoolDL]

There are new build properties behind me, not yet sold... It was a very controversially agreed development as it was on some rare newt pond or something along those lines (I didn't live here then).

The planners seem to be obsessed with what the property will look like from the rear. How common place is back handers in the building trade?

I think I'm just sounding paranoid LOL!

 

[LLCoolDL]

Thanks for the help... I just found this (its not finalized yet). Wish I'd have seen this previously. This is the most detailed information I've been able to find!

STATEMENT HD4 Extensions to existing dwellings must conform to the following standards:

a) Be harmonious in character, scale, form, and materials used in external construction with the existing dwelling; b) Proposals for single-storey extensions shall be treated on their own merits having regard to;
•the siting and orientation of the existing dwelling and proposed extension in relation to adjacent properties;
•the impact of the extension on the amenities of the adjoining residents;
•the visual impact of the proposed extension on the appearance of the streetscene;
•the impact on the main windows in the side elevations of adjacent properties; and the satisfactory positioning of rainwater goods.
c) Single-storey rear extensions (including conservatories) to semi-detached and terraced properties shall not exceed 3.05 metres from the original rear wall of the dwelling;
d) First floor rear extensions to classes (b) and (c) above and all other first floor extensions shall be decided on their merits having regard to the protection of the amenities of the adjacent properties. In order to prevent excessive overshadowing of neighbouring properties extensions at first floor level shall be sited to ensure that their projection does not form a horizontal angle greater than 45° with the nearest habitable room window of any adjacent property;
e) Side extensions will be decided on their merits, but shall be located a minimum of 1 metre from the plot boundaries at first floor level to prevent the coalescence of adjacent properties and the roof design should be compatible with the original dwelling.

 

[LLCoolDL]

As someone has pointed out this post went way off topic so I have deleted it!

 

[tony1851]

@LLCoolDL

What's all this got to do with your plans?

(That report may or may not represent the state of the industry, but from personal experience I would doubt if corruption exists on that scale).

 

[LLCoolDL]

Tony you are right so I deleted it.

I do love your post, especially

I would doubt if corruption exists on that scale).

So you agree corruption exists, just not on that scale!

 

[richardrich79]

As already mentioned it's a pity your architect hadn't already 'got the nod' from planning before submitting the rejected plans.
If you havn't already seriously fallen out with the planning dept I would arrange a meeting with the planning officer to see exactly what alterations to the existing plans are causing a problem and see if an agreement can be reached, then when the plan ir resubmitted to the planning committee try and attend and point out the planning dept has no objection.
This has always worked for me but there again we always stick something in that planning will reject before pp is actually applied for.

 

[rjm2k]

Planners like power, the only way they get to exercise that power is to say NO. Getting PP is a game, you ask for more than you want in the knowledge that they will never approve it and then let them whittle it down to what you wanted in the first place, giving them their power trip. I would have hoped your architect would have dealt with them taking this into account rather than submitting and running.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

This is LLCoolDL's PM to me from yesterday

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• freddiemercurystwin
• 3 Dec 2013
• 1

I don't generally reply to PM's from OPS, unless its an offer of work of course!

 

[LLCoolDL]

I haven't fallen out with planning as I still haven't been able to talk to the guy dealing with it.

Planning Committee and Neighbors had no objections and it was a delegated decision.

Currently trying to work out what they want!