Planning refused for permitted development

[Cappy]

Hi there

Just about to buy a traditional Victorian semi in which the adjoining neighbour has installed a dormer over the front. We want to do the same, within PD, installing another dormer at the rear to form an L shaped dormer.

I've read some people's experiences (e.g. here) of having planning permission refused for what should be a PD right. How can planning refuse PD? Or does planning permission trump PD, where permission is sought? I wasn't planning (pardon the pun) on going to planning for permission.

Similarly, most professionals would suggest serving a party wall notice. But isn't this a formality in many cases (that can slow down the project somewhat and potentially costs quite a bit), especially if you can erect an L shaped dormer through PD? I've read that it's not always necessary to interfere with the party wall, and so serving the notice is not always a necessity.

We're looking for extra rooms due to a growing family, and this is the house for us. So we want to do everything possible to ensure we keep neighbours and the LA on side, whilst getting the L extension we'd like. Welcome your advice.

 

[Nakajo]

Nothing trumps PD. Refusal of an application that includes elements of PD work cannot impede that PD work. It's permitted. Full stop. Similarly, if a planning consent curtails Permitted Development rights (even assuming that the condition is valid - often, it's not) then there's nothing to stop a developer enacting their PD rights BEFORE commencing the consented development.

Party Wall Awards are for your benefit. Where required, ignore them at your peril. But all that's really needed is a few photos of your neighbour's wall and their agreement. It doesn't have to cost anything (although it usually does ).

Although very rare, an injunction would slow down work considerably more than a party wall award.

 

[tony1851]

You don't make it clear how you want the dormer. If there is to be a dormer on the front like the neighbour's, then that would not be pd and would require planning permission.
Subject to certain minor restrictions, a dormer on the rear would normally be pd and not require planning permission.
There is a small chance that pd rights have been removed by the council, but that would be unlikely.

 

[^woody^]

Permitted Development is pre-approval, and can't be refused because of that, and more so because you don't even apply and so there is no application to be refused.

The PWA is law. Professional advice would always be to follow it. Whether you do though, and are prepared to accept the risks of not following it, is down to you.

 

[cjard]

How does one install a rear dormer so that it interacts with a neighbouring front dormer, to form an L shaped anything? When you talk about their dormer being at the front, and you want to do the same (so, a front dormer?), but then go on to talk about a rear dormer under PD, what are you actually talking about? A front dormer, a rear dormer or two dormers?

Am I the only one who is totally confused by the description of desired works?

 

[napoleondynamite]

A front dormer will not usually be possible under permitted development.

B.1 Development is not permitted by Class B if.....

(c)any part of the dwellinghouse would, as a result of the works, extend beyond the plane of any existing roof slope which forms the principal elevation of the dwellinghouse and fronts a highway;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/...tions-etc-to-the-roof-of-a-dwellinghouse/made

 

[Cappy]

Thanks guys. Sorry I wasn't clear. The original roof is in two parts in typical Victorian terraced style. A roof over the front two bedrooms, and another roof longways and at 90 degrees to the front one over the 3rd bedroom and bathroom, so both roifs are in L shape.

My adjoining neighbour's dormer loft is over the front original roof only. It now has sky lights in the sloping roof part facing the highway, so no major change looking at the house from the front; and the box bit facing the garden is at the back.

We'd like to do the same as the neighbours but also add a dormer over the back original roof. Hope that's clearer.

 

[cjard]

So..

Once upon a time your neighbour had a dormer on the front roof slope
There was also enough room above or below the dormer to squeeze some rooflights into the part of the roof that was still sloping

Your rear roof has a bit that slopes downwards away from the road, and the house has an extension which means there is a roof plane sloping downwards away from the boundary with your neighbour, so at 90 degrees to your rear roof slope

And you want a rear dormer setup that occupies both rear roof planes, one looking away from the road and one looking sideways(parallel) to it

Rear dormer should be PD, but it shouldn't create more than 50 cubic metres of new internal space inside the house - if youre planning a large dormer, check that youre within this

You cannot replicate your neighbour's front dormer without planning permission proper

 

[tony1851]

I suspect I know what he means; the neighbour has built a dormer on the rear-facing slope of the main roof, but not over their outrigger.
OP wishes to build a similar rear-facing dormer, but with an additional (extended) dormer over the outrigger.
Subject to certain minor restrictions, that would be permitted development.
See this at no. 7 in 'The Ten worst Permitted.....'
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=P...&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=ykxaV