PleaseHelpUrgent!!BoundLinePartyWall/CouncilFenceLineOut11&a

[JayHS]

Hi there
please help me understand what is right See Photo on my profile re wall and Lines.

mid terrace house, party wall between me and a neighbour here.. our back garden line is out by 11" or so, adding space to my garden. since it was laid out.

the old concrete posts and wire fence line placed by the council when the property was built back in 1930's or so.
I might add that my neighbours previous owner built a block wall on his side, upagainst the concrete council fence line thus moving the line towards him some 3" not including the block thickness of 8 or 9"

problem is this
do i build upto ( centre of the concrete posts = 9" from party wall centre )the old orginal conrete fence line which is out from the centre of my party wall?

or do i Build upto or near the surface of my neighbours block wall ( 11" out from centre of party wall to surface of his block wall.

Or do I build from centre line of party wall? and lose 11" or so and make it dead space for everyone due to the block wall.

the original problem i have, i think all started from the main down pipe for the shared guttering came down right on the line of the old concrete fence line so they moved the underground pipe onto my land as it is now. but the fence line should have been relocated 9" nearer to me to be in line with the party wall. and thus not having the clay pipe on my land. as the downpipe and clay soil pipe would still be on his land.

what do i do
as it is sunday and i am chompin at the bit to find out more and plan accordingly because the conservatory is starting work this comming week, and no one is available to find out asap

 

[noseall]

Build 150mm in from the the centre of the original boundary marker so that your gutter overhang and concrete foundation toe are all on your own propery.

I suggest 150mm but the measurement needs to ensure that the whole of the building including any overhang is within your property.

Just live with the dead space it creates.

 

[JayHS]

Hi noseall

cheers for the reply back
i hear what you say and it makes sense to me.

but i am wondering what is my original boundary? what would the "Orginal Boundary Marker" be?

the original concrete posts?
the newer block wall ( my side )
or the centre of the party wall?

i understand the overhang that may arise from gutter and foundations and so on. i am just totally unsure re the line I am meant to work back from

I am not trying to steal any land that might not be mine, but if it is.. I simply want to use it. and not have a dead space

 

[JayHS]

or is the "Original Boundary marker" a metal pin.. buried into the ground? as i have found elsewhere on this forum.

 

[joe-90]

The usual definition is that it is an imaginary line running through the middle of the original fence as per the deeds.

 

[JayHS]

Hi Joe90

Cheers yes i understand that but the deeds might not show the line being out by 11"
it will simply have a line running through the house/party wall and along the garden boundary.. which is not as it is nor was in reality.

 

[joe-90]

I can't see it being any other way than being down the centre of the original posts as that would have been the original boundary line taken from the deeds. I'm guessing that you feel the same way?

 

[JayHS]

Hey Joe

i know, i do feel that this is the only way to look at it! yes, but i am a decent man and i like to think I am also a decent neighbour and a good father and i can make a great cuppa too..
and simply want to do this correctly and if this land is mine, i simply wish to use it and not have dead space where the only thing the space is good for is for nothing, and for no one.
Or let my neighbour have it if it is his.
IS it worth me getting title deeds for my neighbours property also? to see if the plans condradict mine when i get them?

 

[joe-90]

You can get them on-line but they show precious little info.

 

[JayHS]

Hey there
ok, so we all know that the deeds will show little or sweet fa re the boundary lines re a garden or a wall of a regular mid terrace house..
so what can or should i do.
i have 2 days to sort this or i build onto my party wall line and end up with dead space as it were.
do i need to get a serveyor in?

 

[JayHS]

or do i just build upto what is and has been my garden for the last 12 years or so.. upto the boundary line that no one can prove! 100% and do what needs to be done in the future? like court

 

[Blagard]

You can get them on-line but they show precious little info.

I think you may be talking about land registery there. You cannot rely on this information alone. It is at best a rough guide.

Your deeds will probably describe the plot you own including the features on the boundary. They may go so far as to say who owns the feature.

It would not be unusual for the feature to be a fence, so there you would have it. Taking any other route without consulting the deeds is at best, an educated guess.

 

[JayHS]

hey there Blagard

the deeds mmm they are how we say.. vanished.
no idea we can not find the deeds. we bought this house back in 2002 with a 50% mortg left on it.
and over the years we have mislaid them
any ideas where or how i can get them again ? that is if i can get them again?

 

[JayHS]

Boundary Disputes

i found this on the Land Registry website
re boundary dispute

"When it comes to considering the location or position of a disputed boundary, the court or lands tribunal will first look at the land registry Title Register, Title Plan and historical Title Deeds to see if they provide any guidance such as ‘T’ marks.

It is also important to consider aspects of Adverse Possession, commonly known as squatter’s rights. If the boundary has been out of position for 12 the process of claiming Possessory Title can be started.

If you are involved in a boundary dispute it is advised you obtain the advice of counsel"

 

[JayHS]

a snip out of todays Telegraph
property advice - dated 05/09/11
re What adverse possession is!?

In certain circumstances a person can acquire land belonging to someone else by "squatting" on it for a defined period. Dealing first with unregistered land, to acquire title by adverse possession the squatter must show he has had exclusive possession without the consent of the true owner for 12 years. The best evidence for this is that the land has been fenced off so that only the squatter has access to it. Hence it is very difficult to acquire title to paths and roadways, which many people could use. Similarly, it isn't grounds for a claim if someone parks their car occasionally on your land.

How is it different for registered land?

The Land Registration Act 2002 has reduced the required period to 10 years (the old rules still apply if a person had adverse possession for more than 12 years before the act came into force on Oct 13 2003). But it has made it much more difficult to get title this way.

The application will be automatically rejected unless the squatter can make out one of three grounds. If the registered proprietor of the land has led the squatter to believe that the squatter did indeed own it and if the squatter has acted in some way to his own detriment on the basis of this then the registered proprietor cannot change his mind and get the land back. Alternatively, the squatter may be entitled to be registered as proprietor for some other reason; perhaps he has a contract to buy it.

Lastly, the squatter may have been in adverse possession of land adjacent to their own under the mistaken but reasonable belief it belonged to them. This only applies if the boundary has not been determined by the Land Registry (and it is very rare for it to determine boundaries) and where the land has been registered for more than a year.

mmmm am i a squatter? as i was led to believe the land and the block wall was mine.