Plumbers. Bless them.

So if we look at requirement 514.4.2
It says
A bi colour combination green and yellow shall be used exclusively for identification of a protective conductor and this combination shall not be used for any other purpose.

I think that is self explanatory and the mention of single core cables should not devalue this.
 
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NAPIT replied, but subject to change.
The earthing conductor should not be over sleeved to indicate it as any other conductor than what it is, identification of the ends is all well and good but if someone where to break into the cable along its length for whatever reason, then the cpc would for all intensive purposes at that point would be the earth and connections would be incorrect and possibly dangerous. All conductors should be identified as BS7671 chapter 51
I'm sure that's precisely what most of us in this forum would think/feel. So does this mean that you have revised your view about the acceptability of oversleeving a G/Y-insulated conductors at the ends for use as a live conductor?

Kind Regards, John
 
NAPIT replied, but subject to change.
The earthing conductor should not be over sleeved to indicate it as any other conductor than what it is, identification of the ends is all well and good but if someone where to break into the cable along its length for whatever reason, then the cpc would for all intensive purposes at that point would be the earth and connections would be incorrect and possibly dangerous. All conductors should be identified as BS7671 chapter 51
I'm sure that's precisely what most of us in this forum would think/feel. So does this mean that you have revised your view about the acceptability of oversleeving a G/Y-insulated conductors at the ends for use as a live conductor?

Kind Regards, John

No John.

Because NIC and building control say different.

Also as I said you can go to virtually any building site/installation and see the problem first hand. And yes before you ask, they are proper sparks.
 
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If you think that's bad. I recently attended a job where not only had the CPC in a twin and earth been used for a SL to a boiler, but was terminated in the metal back box earth terminal. :eek: :eek:
 
As I said ask a 100 sparks and get a dozen different answers, works with RGI's as well :rolleyes:
 
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My answer is it might be allowed (in insulated sheathed cables) but is rough as a badgers ass and I would not do it :LOL:
 
I'm sure that's precisely what most of us in this forum would think/feel. So does this mean that you have revised your view about the acceptability of oversleeving a G/Y-insulated conductors at the ends for use as a live conductor?
No John. Because NIC and building control say different.
I'm not sure how authoritative those other opinions you have obtained are. I find it rather hard to believe that the official line of either NIC or BC would be that non-compliance with BS7671 was acceptable or even that it was desirable to do something which, regardless of regs, is clearly not ideal practice.
Also as I said you can go to virtually any building site/installation and see the problem first hand. And yes before you ask, they are proper sparks.
I'm not denying that the practice is common. I've even done it myself in my time (usually with PIRs, not heating controls). However, none of that necessarily means that it is desirable, 'good practice' or compliant with regs. It's obviously never anything approaching an insuperable problem - all it requires is the installation of an appropriate bit of (easily available) cable!

Kind Regards, John
 
My answer is it might be allowed (in insulated sheathed cables) but is rough as a badgers ass and I would not do it :LOL:
Quite so - which is why I find it hard to believe that the official line of either NIC or BC would be to condone it as a desirable practice.

Quite apart from the issue of conductor identification (in the, admittedly unlikley, event that someone broke into the cable along its length), I'm not sure that the absence of a CPC in what is essentially 'fixed wiring' is all that desirable, either.

If one is dealing with pre-existing, buried, 3-core cable, then I can see that some people might think that ripping out and replacing the cable was rather too much of a hassle. However, if it's a new instal, or surface mounted (or otherwise easily replaced) cable, I can't see any excuse for not using 4-core (or 'more-core').

Kind Regards, John
 
This is what happens when people start messing around with the regs - the 16th edn had it cast in stone that using a green/yellow for anything else is a no!
The same snippet from the 1992 (amd2 1997) regs I posted over in the plumbers forum:

Start adding words to it in the 17th edn and it causes confusion.
So reading the 17th edn regs it would appear it is allowed but anyone trained in the 16th edn era would probably not condone the practice out of good workmanship.
 
This is what happens when people start messing around with the regs - the 16th edn had it cast in stone that using a green/yellow for anything else is a no! The same snippet from the 1992 (amd2 1997) regs I posted over in the plumbers forum:
Start adding words to it in the 17th edn and it causes confusion. So reading the 17th edn regs it would appear it is allowed but anyone trained in the 16th edn era would probably not condone the practice out of good workmanship.
Let me start by agreeing wholeheartedly with your belief that use of (oversleeved at ends) G/Y-insulated conductors is bad practice/workmanship - and just as much today as under previous editions of the regs.

However, since we're discussing 'the word' of the regs, I'm not sure that I agree with what you say above. The 17th ed. has certainly explicitly prohibited G/Y singles from being used for anything other than a protective conductor (in a way that the 16th ed. did not). However, as for other (multi-core) cables, both 16th and 17th eds say the same thing - and what they are prohibiting is the use of G/Y colours for identification of anything other than a protective conductor. As for the meaning of 'for identication of', 514.3.2 of 17th ed (and, I suspect, a corresponding reg in the 16th ed.) requires that cores must be identified "'at their terminations and preferably throughout their length".

Hence, assuming it contained something similar to 514.3.2, I think that the material you quote from the 16th ed would probably have allowed a G/Y core to be used as a live conductor, provided it was appropriately identified (by over-sleeving) at its terminations - since to have that identification throughout the length of a cable was (and still is) only 'preferable', not mandatory.

...but, as above, none of that means that I regard it as a desirable practice!

Kind Regards, John
 

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