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Plumbers/installers....Would you accept this?

Discussion in 'Plumbing and Central Heating' started by dishman, 7 Mar 2019.

  1. Hot&Cold

    Hot&Cold

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    Umm, but buying unseen is the problem here. Buying via remote virtual internet sheds has many disadvantages. Buy at a trade counter,inspect the item before carting them away. Distributors will have different protocols when selling to trade customer and one off diy customers.

    :mrgreen:
     
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  3. dishman

    dishman

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    But for this size of radiator, no trade counters have them in stock. Also, even if it were possible, are you saying that trades will open the box and thoroughly inspect said item at point of sale?

    The last radiator looked in great condition at a glance, the packaging was great as you can see per the photo.

    It was only on a close inspection after opening all the packaging that the paint defect was found. Unless you would consider that not worth mentioning.

    The Stelrad packaging was so crappy that yes, damage may be more visible at a glance. But even that last Stelrad had a manufacturing defect only visible after opening it all up.

    I am genuinely curious. If I could buy in person, I would have!
     
  4. Hot&Cold

    Hot&Cold

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    Wolseley (was plumb center) trade counters will order in any size radiator,they may be able to locate local stock for your collection. They have been selling radiators for many years and know how to handle the products. the trade counter operative may well be grumpy or more co operative for you to inspect the product.

    Dont forget,your the customer (y)
     
  5. dishman

    dishman

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    Out of interest, I contacted my local Wolseley, as I expected, not in stock.

    They did have one in a branch further out which would have meant a bit of a trip. Theirs are rebranded Myson. It was nearly twice the amount of the Barlo/Quinn for the same size, output.So I think I'll stick with the latter.

    Toolstation are swapping this one tomorrow, no questions asked....so....fingers crossed...again!
     
  6. dilalio

    dilalio

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    You get what you pay for.
    If I'm asked to supply, I get from my supplier who has a vested interest in my repeat business and that comes with a cost to guarantee a quality product. For customers who insist on buying cheap unknown Internet products, I insist that they receive delivery of it and check it before I am booked in to fit it. If it is a complex item (or range thereof) and is missing parts/adaptors that they are ignorant of, then my time is chargeable, upon arrival, to include procuring various required accessories or for a failed visit for rebooking when order has been properly fulfilled.
    I have known Internet suppliers to resupply a defective or incorrect product and not be interested in collecting the original delivery as its not worth the logistical cost... I have no idea how they can account for this... I can't!
    My time is precious and chargeable and I cannot afford a failed visit that isn't my fault.
     
  7. dishman

    dishman

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    I appreciate that, but toolstation are hardly some dodgy online site and the products in my case have not been unknown/unbranded products.

    Plumbnation probably source theirs from a similar warehouse too being part of the travis perkins group.

    I still don't see a trade counter, however good, being able to spot minor paint defects of the product which are only visible once opened and closely inspected.

    I would concede that a quality trade place should have more control over the quality of their courier service. Both to their warehouse, proper storage and shipping to the customer or to the trade counter. But in the same vein a good manufacturer should ensure their packaging can cope with moderate shipping requirements, which stelrad's seemingly does not.

    Stelrad are among the more expensive radiators but that was certainly no measure of quality from what I have received thus far. So cost clearly does not equal guaranteed quality in this instance.

    Barlow/Quinn are not an unknown either and their packaging was far beyond what Stelrad provided. Even the guy on the phone at Wolseley said they have returns issues with Stelrads when I quizzed him about it. The finish, bar that slight mark, seemed a lot better on the Barlow/Quinn too.

    I doubt Myson are any better than the other two when it comes to defects which are only noticeable once unpacked.

    Luck of the draw I guess.
     
  8. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    For those hard of hearing at the back ....


    What do you think the counter is for?

    Christ, you'd have thought we were sending man to Mars..
     
  9. dishman

    dishman

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    Fair enough, if a trade goes to the trouble of unboxing a whole product on the counter ripping the cellophane off, taking off the padding and looking over every surface for any defects before putting all back and loading into the van, more power too them.
     
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  11. Dan Robinson

    Dan Robinson

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    For one or three rads yes.

    Why do DIY'ers think they are special?
     
  12. dishman

    dishman

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    I never said I was. If I inferred that, that is not the case.

    I can see why @mattylad did not want to get drawn into something the post was not directly about.

    I can completely understand a trade wanting to source and check their own items for installation. It seems perfectly logical.
    I could also understand a trade wanting to and being able to check over a product for signs of obvious damage, as per the first images.

    If a trade goes to the level of checking that would spot the issue in the last image, which was a lot harder to see than the image makes out, then I underestimated the level of checking that occurs. Especially for something like an 1800 x 600 rad, which is not exactly small and easy to flip over.

    If I felt comfortable doing this and bought the product at the trade counter, I would.

    But, not being a trade should not preclude a Diy'er from being able to receive goods from a manufacturer/supplier in an undamaged state due to poor packaging (which is the case with stelrad).

    Manufacturing/paint work faults are a different matter as they are clearly not about the packaging. Maybe I have just been unlucky in this regard.

    This post was purely about what damage/defects a trade would deem acceptable because I was surprised at the poor packing quality of the Stelrad radiators, regardless of who sells them, and assumed it must be a wider problem. The fact the trade counter at Wolseley confirmed it was an issue with stelrad's means this is not an isolated experience.
     
  13. dilalio

    dilalio

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    "Discussion Forum", "Topic", "Thread"... All indicate that "conversations" can and will expand and evolve on here and your original post is aimed at us "plumbers/installers".

    @mattylad extended the parameters of this thread with the above comment, which drew my attention as it shifted the focus from poor manufacturing and/or transport handling of products to the competency of the tradesman fitting said products.
    Hence my response which was not "off topic" and I certainly wasn't "playing a game".

    Goods sourced and supplied via the Internet are both a blessing and a curse for the trades. On the plus side, we have access to a greater range of products (as does the retail customer) but on the down side, the quality of these products and the couriers they choose to handle the supply chain yields unpredictable results. Its a regular discussion point amongst my peers and I.

    On a couple of occasions, I have been advised, by my regular trade counters, to invoice manufacturers for my time, wasted due to faulty goods, when I have supplied them and have been successful in receiving payment in such cases. I will continue to do this.

    As far as your situation goes, I would contact the manufacturer direct and bring your irritation to their attention. It should (hopefully) encourage them to investigate and improve things for others as it is obvious that their manufacturing process needs some scrutiny.

    Cheers, D.
     
  14. mattylad

    mattylad

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    No, I did not extend the parameters nor change the topic - I just made a comment on it,
    My reply was actually going to be almost the same as what you wrote about it in post #35.
    However, knowing how discussions on here change very quickly and end up being totally off topic - I am still not playing that game.
    Stick yer scenarios where the sun don't shine and stick to the facts of the topic :)
     
  15. dilalio

    dilalio

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    Yes, you did AFAIAC. :)
     
  16. dilalio

    dilalio

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    And you stick to "yer" DIYing fella ;)
     
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