Pointing advice.... regarding costs between several owners

[johnnymac58]

I live in a block of privately owned flats.

There is some pointing work that needs doing.

I've got some quotes and am happy enough to go ahead.

The work is on part of my property, the neighbour below and some communal areas.

Am I right in thinking the cost would be shared equally by all?

Or should I be paying for my own, as one of the other neighbours has suggested?

 

[mointainwalker]

There will certainly be a contract determining how costs of work are divided for work appertaining solely to one flat or several or communal areas.

Even if this doesn't entirely cover your question, i would imagine it would give a very good starting point for reasonable discussions.

 

[johnnymac58]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm perfectly happy to pay for my property if I need to.

It's just that the company I got the quote from along with the local council suggested it should be shared between all 6 properties (as with guttering and roof work).

Title deeds are the only other thing I could check I guess, but i'd have to go and arrange to get a copy of them.

 

[KenGMac]

jonnymac, Hi.

Several pitfalls Etc.

1/. Try to get a look @ the title deeds, in there it may be laid out as to who pays for what, for example, everyone pays if the foundations fail. Everyone pays if the roof leaks, having said that I have heard of some situations where if the top floor flat owner builds into the loft space above their flat then [occasionally] - Very Occasionally- they then take on the repair of the roof.

2/. your Solicitor or Building Society [if you have a Mortgage] can supply you with a copy of the deeds, BUT at a cost ! My preference would be to ask the Solicitor, because if the Mortgage lender gets a "sniff of" a potential external problem they may send in someone of their own to "muddy the water" on the pretext of "safeguarding" their interest, as an aside in Edinburgh some Tenements in especially Morningside have historically had to have hundreds of thousands of pounds of work done to "restore" the external masonry

3/. Next problem you may be facing, is that as with lots of "flatted / Tenement" property many of the flats have "absentee landlords" the flat let out to Students Etc. Trying to contact the !actual owner" is like "Scotch Mist" Having said that all Scottish landlords MUST register the flat, the list of these is on the web. Problem there is that the "LETTING Agent" is given as the point of contact. Here is another "Problem" that being that the letting Agent does not / will not pass on to the actual "Owner" any information as regards any "common repairs"

4/. Then we come to a completely and totally USELESS piece of particularly "Scottish legislation" the "Tenement act Scotland" completely un-enforcable, do a web search, full of good intent, BUT not a working doccument at all and simply not enforcable.

5/. one problem is that if you go ahead and "authorize / pay for2 the pointing repairs needed and at some point in the future a flat owner / resident gets lets say condensation on an external wall that "YOUR CONTRACTOR" has worked on then this unfortunate third party will hire a "Surveyor" who will say that it is the work that you !authorized" that is now causing a problem and you could be held to account?

6/. Bottom line is "Simple"
A/. Check the Deeds
B/. contact all of the other "affected owners" to discuss the way ahead, ask them to obtain their "own quotes" to have the re-pointing undertaken.
C/. now finally, back to para 4/. above. this Legislation requires several things in no order as follows.
C/1/.That all residents who occupy a property, with more than 2 houses / dwellings MUST form what is referred to as a "Stair Committee" this to get some sort of formal agreement going between the various owners and allow a quasi formal parterniship to form in the Tenement / Close / Stair
C/2/. The Stair committee can organise to hold funds in the event of "common repairs" being needed and is a "formal" way of "forcing" all owners to be seen to try to discuss a potential problem / repair / capital spend top say re-roof the Tenement.
C/3/. All residents will probably be asked to lodge the funds in full for the repair PRIOR to the repair being undertaken by the preferred builder, this is very common practice, if one owner does not lodge the funds, nothing happens

I apologize if I have gone on a bit with this issue, but it is just a tad "complex" around the edges. if I can possibly shine some light into ant dark corners that you may see in the above please ask and I will attempt to assist.

Cheers.

Ken.

 

[^woody^]

Normally the management agent or landlord is responsible for block/communal repairs and the costs are shared equally between all flat owners/tenants

 

[johnnymac58]

jonnymac, Hi.

Several pitfalls Etc.

1/. Try to get a look @ the title deeds, in there it may be laid out as to who pays for what, for example, everyone pays if the foundations fail. Everyone pays if the roof leaks, having said that I have heard of some situations where if the top floor flat owner builds into the loft space above their flat then [occasionally] - Very Occasionally- they then take on the repair of the roof.

2/. your Solicitor or Building Society [if you have a Mortgage] can supply you with a copy of the deeds, BUT at a cost ! My preference would be to ask the Solicitor, because if the Mortgage lender gets a "sniff of" a potential external problem they may send in someone of their own to "muddy the water" on the pretext of "safeguarding" their interest, as an aside in Edinburgh some Tenements in especially Morningside have historically had to have hundreds of thousands of pounds of work done to "restore" the external masonry

3/. Next problem you may be facing, is that as with lots of "flatted / Tenement" property many of the flats have "absentee landlords" the flat let out to Students Etc. Trying to contact the !actual owner" is like "Scotch Mist" Having said that all Scottish landlords MUST register the flat, the list of these is on the web. Problem there is that the "LETTING Agent" is given as the point of contact. Here is another "Problem" that being that the letting Agent does not / will not pass on to the actual "Owner" any information as regards any "common repairs"

4/. Then we come to a completely and totally USELESS piece of particularly "Scottish legislation" the "Tenement act Scotland" completely un-enforcable, do a web search, full of good intent, BUT not a working doccument at all and simply not enforcable.

5/. one problem is that if you go ahead and "authorize / pay for2 the pointing repairs needed and at some point in the future a flat owner / resident gets lets say condensation on an external wall that "YOUR CONTRACTOR" has worked on then this unfortunate third party will hire a "Surveyor" who will say that it is the work that you !authorized" that is now causing a problem and you could be held to account?

6/. Bottom line is "Simple"
A/. Check the Deeds
B/. contact all of the other "affected owners" to discuss the way ahead, ask them to obtain their "own quotes" to have the re-pointing undertaken.
C/. now finally, back to para 4/. above. this Legislation requires several things in no order as follows.
C/1/.That all residents who occupy a property, with more than 2 houses / dwellings MUST form what is referred to as a "Stair Committee" this to get some sort of formal agreement going between the various owners and allow a quasi formal parterniship to form in the Tenement / Close / Stair
C/2/. The Stair committee can organise to hold funds in the event of "common repairs" being needed and is a "formal" way of "forcing" all owners to be seen to try to discuss a potential problem / repair / capital spend top say re-roof the Tenement.
C/3/. All residents will probably be asked to lodge the funds in full for the repair PRIOR to the repair being undertaken by the preferred builder, this is very common practice, if one owner does not lodge the funds, nothing happens

I apologize if I have gone on a bit with this issue, but it is just a tad "complex" around the edges. if I can possibly shine some light into ant dark corners that you may see in the above please ask and I will attempt to assist.

Cheers.

Ken.

Ken,

Thanks for your reply.

1/ Haven't seen my title deeds..... will check if any other flat owners have them available.

2/ I'll check with the Solicitor to see if they can provide me with the deeds.

3/ I know all the landlords, they all stay in the block still, so no problem on that front.

4/ Yeah, I've read through this..... as you say, full of good intent!

5/ I'm actually getting a little condensation on my external wall.... due to the pointing problem..... as is the guy below me. We are the only 2 affected (apart from the communal area). So that shouldn't be a problem.

6/ I've drafted a letter with my quotes obtained which I'll send round to the other tenents tonight and if any of them have any issues we can sort it all out before proceeding. It's no great deal if I have to pay for my own section of pointing as it'll be an extra few hundred pounds max.

Thanks again,

John