Poss 15 month old Heat Exch fault - can I seek repair/compen

[delderek]

My boiler pressure is continually creeping up and I know that it is not the filling loop as I have disconnected it so I am assuming that it is, unfortunately, the heat exchanger (being damaged / perforated).

Now I had a new heat exchanger fitted in October 2010 - It was fitted by British Gas on their fixed price £168 one -off thingy which I thought was reasonably priced at the time but I am now thoroughly miffed that the thing appears to have only lasted just over a year.


British Gas guaranteed the work for 1 year but that has now expired as it has been about 15 months but I have now been made aware that there is quite a well known consumer law suggesting that

"a two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU (Directive 1999/44/EC). In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period."

Has anyone ever heard of this 2 year thingy and, if so, have you ever heard of it being applied in terms of central heating boilers and components

 

[mickyg]

plate heat exchangers are pretty durable and reliable, if your needing another one so soon for the same reason I'd expect its a water quality issue, which BG will use to get out of any claim.

 

[delderek]

plate heat exchangers are pretty durable and reliable, if your needing another one so soon for the same reason I'd expect its a water quality issue, which BG will use to get out of any claim.

When you talk about water quality are you referring to the 'feed' water or would it be the quality of the water within my central heating system (if that makes sense)?

 

[Kev F]

Central heating water

 

[delderek]

Central heating water

It's as clear as a mountain spring with a little inhibitor through it.


Surely worth investigating a faulty Heat Ex depending on the fault?

 

[transam]

I have heard of this 2 year warranty

How ever heatline boilers , owned by vaillant only give a 1 year warranty to the customer

So if this 2 year , what ever is correct than it would imply that Vaillant are in breach of EU law ? which I doubt !!

 

[simond]

If the pressure is always rising and you have had a new HEX fitted last year I'd be surprised to see some inhibitor in there.

What do you do with the excess pressure?

Is it an old boiler with a diapraghm diverter or a newer design with a motor?

 

[gasman26]

It's more than likely a different fault, expansion vessel needs charging or diaphragm is split...
Call a local RGI to take a look...

 

[D_Hailsham]

I have now been made aware that there is quite a well known consumer law suggesting that

"a two-year guarantee applies for the sale of all consumer goods everywhere in the EU (Directive 1999/44/EC). In some countries, this may be more, and some manufacturers also choose to offer a longer warranty period."

Has anyone ever heard of this 2 year thingy and, if so, have you ever heard of it being applied in terms of central heating boilers and components

Yes the law does exist and I have made use of it, but not for a hex. The procedure is a bit long winded as you have to prove that the component was faulty when installed.

In my case it was a LCD computer monitor which gave up the ghost. I went back to the shop where I bought it, who referred me to their head office. I wrote to them saying that I wanted the monitor repaired or replaced. To cut a long story short, I then had to find a firm who would test the monitor and identify what the fault was and give the supplier this info before they would entertain my claim. I found a firm and sent the monitor off. Back came an email saying that the fault was caused by overheating of some components due to insufficient ventilation. They offered to replace the components by better quality ones for a fixed fee.

I accepted this and informed the original supplier of the fault and cost of repair. They told me to get the work done and they would then refund the total cost, including postage both ways.

That was over two years ago and the monitor is still working perfectly.

 

[mickyg]

plate heat exchangers are pretty durable and reliable, if your needing another one so soon for the same reason I'd expect its a water quality issue, which BG will use to get out of any claim.

When you talk about water quality are you referring to the 'feed' water or would it be the quality of the water within my central heating system (if that makes sense)?

could be either I've come across some pretty aggressive mains water before. Either way it will be their get out

 

[UpgradeME]

Has anyone ever heard of this 2 year thingy and, if so, have you ever heard of it being applied in terms of central heating boilers and components

Yes the law does exist and I have made use of it, but not for a hex. The procedure is a bit long winded as you have to prove that the component was faulty when installed.

Unless it's changed in the last 3 years, there is no consumer law that requires manufacturers to provide a 2 year warranty in the UK. The EU law that requires a 2yr warranty does not apply here.

I believe DH may be referring to the "Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002" which has a clause referring to known manufacturing faults or faults having been there since original purchase (I can't remember the exact wording..) - The time limits on these cases are not clearly defined, I think they use words like "reasonable time" so if you are persistant with detailed info, you can make a claim.

A lot of companies will just pay up / refund / swap if you push hard enough as they probably don't have the resource internally to deal with it at that level! (You do need to be professional and know your facts though as their legal team will get involved).

(I used to have to know/deal with this kind of thing professionally (on a technical level with suppliers and legal) )

 

[delderek]

If the pressure is always rising and you have had a new HEX fitted last year I'd be surprised to see some inhibitor in there.

What do you do with the excess pressure?

Is it an old boiler with a diapraghm diverter or a newer design with a motor?

The pressre seems to rise to just over 3 - in the red' and i'm assuming it doesn't really go much further due to the water dripping out the overflow pipe outside.

The boiler is relatively new - a vokera compact 28, 5 or 6 yearsold so i don'[t hink it has a diaphragm - i certainly couldn't see one in the detailed diagrams.

 

[DP]

I would strongly suspect the heat exchanger has failed not because of a defect, but more the case of excessive mains pressure, which will be the get out clause for the makers.

Glasgow water pressure is a killer of boilers if pressure not kept in check.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Unless it's changed in the last 3 years, there is no consumer law that requires manufacturers to provide a 2 year warranty in the UK. The EU law that requires a 2yr warranty does not apply here.

The law does apply. EU Directive 1999/44/EC was incorporated into UK law by the The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. The problem is that the UK have, as always, "gold plated" the requirements of the directive.

So the requirement that the seller must deliver to the consumer goods which are in conformity with the contract and establishes a presumption for conformity if the goods meets certain requirements, is turned on its head in the UK - i.e. goods are presumed not to be in conformity unless they meet certain standards.

Faults which become apparent within six months of purchase are assumed, with some exceptions, to have been present when the goods were sold.

The two year rule is not a warranty or guarantee but just specifies that the supplier is liable for any "lack of conformity" with the contract for two years. Again the UK has "gold plated" this by making the period six years, to bring into line with the Statute of Limitations.

This does not mean that all goods carry a six year warranty as this Traders Guide make clear.

 

[UpgradeME]

Unless it's changed in the last 3 years, there is no consumer law that requires manufacturers to provide a 2 year warranty in the UK. The EU law that requires a 2yr warranty does not apply here.

The law does apply. EU Directive 1999/44/EC was incorporated into UK law by the The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. The problem is that the UK have, as always, "gold plated" the requirements of the directive.

I did mention the S&SoGtCR 2002, however, across Europe manufaturers WILL give consumers a 2 year warranty. This is costed into the products at the point of manufacturer (as I said, I did this professionally!!) and handled in the same way as the UK's 1 year warranty.

The two year rule is not a warranty or guarantee but just specifies that the supplier is liable for any "lack of conformity" with the contract for two years.

Erm, what two year rule? There isn't one in the UK!

I remember our legal teams (internal & external) described S&SoGtCR 2002 as very "wooly"! - I was informed that it would be deceided in the end by the courts, until there was some case law, it would be "wooly" i.e. open to interpretation by either side

Faults which become apparent within six months of purchase are assumed, with some exceptions, to have been present when the goods were sold.

In the UK, new consumer products with faults which occur in the first 12 months are covered by warranty/law (with some exceptions). The 6 months part is again "wooly" and is referring to whether the customer is entitled to a refund, repair or replacement.

One of the key issues IIRC, is when the onus changes between customer / supplier to prove their point. e.g. The customer must prove the fault existed rather than the supplier proving it didn't (after a period of time).