Possible Building Control Issue At Sale

[jagillham]

Hi,

Looking for some advise as we're in a bit of a situation currently.

Very long story short, we purchased our '2 up 2 down' mid terrace 10-15 years ago. At the time we thought this was to be our long term home, and made extensive changes. Mainly removal of several walls, and a 'loft conversion'. Due to the layout of the home, it was impossible to comply with building regulations in terms of a protected means of escape to a downstairs exit (open plan ground floor). As we had no plans to move either, it was converted in pretty much the best way we could. Floor joists were strengthened, steels specified by structural engineer for removal of purlin support struts, celotex between rafters, velux window etc

Fast forward to now, and our situation changed due to unexpected inheritance from the untimely departure of a family member. This enabled us to buy a 'family home', and look to sell the terraced house. It's marketed clearly as a 2 bed + loft room, and we've never made any suggestion it is 3 bed.

Perspective buyers were made aware, and a sale was agreed. The issue of the lack of paperwork was to be dealt with via an indemnity policy. Buyer a long was into the sale suddenly decided to pull out, no real reason, apart from saying the loft room did not have paperwork (which A they knew from the start, and B is why it was not on as a 3 bed house). I presume these people also decided for reasons only known to themselves to 'tip off' building control.

We have as yet had nothing formal through from them, except a business card though the door saying 'call me'. They have since called the estate agent to also pass on the same message.

We have currently a new offer from a buyer on the table, which we are minded to accept. However this building control issue now muddies the water. I don't know if to make contact with building control or not. As far as I'm aware, with the works being several years old, we our not at risk of a Section 36 to remove or give regularisation to the works. I understand there is a theoretical risk of an injunction, but that no building control has ever actually got one against a loft conversion.

I don't want anything formal to declare to the buyer on the law pack (ie, a dispute), or invalidate any new indemnity policy by liaising with building control (even if that just means they confirm it's outside of their time frame. If I just ignore building control will they eventually go away?

 

[^woody^]

Whatever a buyer may be aware of in the beginning, by the time their conveyance Solicitor and their mortgage company gets involved they will certainly be advising to get any unauthorised work regularised.

Building control won't just go away, and you can't ignore them or not make prospective buyers aware of the situation.

 

[jagillham]

Whatever a buyer may be aware of in the beginning, by the time their conveyance Solicitor and their mortgage company gets involved they will certainly be advising to get any unauthorised work regularised.

Building control won't just go away, and you can't ignore them or not make prospective buyers aware of the situation.

Oh yes, they'll "find" it's not got the paperwork - but that was the point of the indemnity policy (which was the remedy intended previously), and why it's on as 2+loft, rather than 3 bed.

The 'loft room' is not regularisable (new word?!) as a habitable room. It would not be able to meet the means of escape requirements, the stairs are marginally too steep and the insulation would not be up to requirements either. So that one is a no go really.

I guess really the question is will building control eventually just issue a Section 36 speculatively, despite not knowing if the work is under or over 12 months old. As it stands I've not had anything from building control to say why they want me to call, therefore there is no 'dispute' as such.

What I don't want to get into is a situation where is becomes "pending" forever. The work can't be regularised, it's outside their remit to force S36 compliance, injunction just isn't going to happen and I can't get the indemnity cover as I've "asked" the BCO.

 

[^woody^]

You have unknown, untested, unauthorised and potentially unsafe conversion work. That is what the buyer, their surveyor, their valuer, their lender and their legal advisors will be saying. And that is what you need to deal with one way or another.

The chance of action may be slight, but in a conveyance that matters little.

 

[jagillham]

You have unknown, untested, unauthorised and potentially unsafe conversion work. That is what the buyer, their surveyor, their valuer, their lender and their legal advisors will be saying. And that is what you need to deal with one way or another.

The chance of action may be slight, but in a conveyance that matters little.

This is what I am trying to understand / fix.

So theoretically BCO comes around and says that loft room should have been building regs compliant. I say, yes very sorry, however it’s not, I can’t make it so, and it was done years ago now anyway. What happens next with building control?

 

[Ian H]

They send a letter saying it’s outside any enforcement time and that they recommend you remove the stairs and velux.

This happened to me, it was my brother in laws ex that grassed is up. I’ve never sold the house though.

 

[jagillham]

They send a letter saying it’s outside any enforcement time and that they recommend you remove the stairs and velux.

This happened to me, it was my brother in laws ex that grassed is up. I’ve never sold the house though.

Thank you. Was that a long process, and did you have to prove the age or anything like that?

 

[Ian H]

No, he came round, took some photos then sent the letter. I just looked it up and I did the conversion in 2005 and he came round in 2011.

I **** it when he called and for a few days was expecting to have to rip the lot out. I thought to do a hip to gable with a big dormer to **** off the cow that grassed me up.

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/phone-call-from-bco-re-loft-windows.258035/

I’ve just done a proper loft conversion at another house with planning and building control involved. Apart from the tit that did the plans it was a pleasant experience.

 

[bernardgreen]

It would not be able to meet the means of escape requirements,

Would you buy a house if your solicitor discovered that it did not have the "escape requirements" necessary should there be a fire in the house ?

we our not at risk of a Section 36

Maybe not but the risk of non reversable death due to being trapped in a burning building remains.

 

[jagillham]

Would you buy a house if your solicitor discovered that it did not have the "escape requirements" necessary should there be a fire in the house ?



Maybe not but the risk of non reversable death due to being trapped in a burning building remains.

Short answer: yes.

Would you only ever buy a new build, as to ensure you always lived in the very latest regulation? There are hundreds of thousands of 3 storey Victorian era houses which to all practical purposes are the same as mine is now. Are they all unsaleable death traps too?

Is the house building regs compliant, no. Is it now safer than it was, yes. I’d rather be in my 3 storey with wired smoke alarms throughout and modern building materials over the 2 storey version with plaster and lathe ceilings, no insulation anywhere, 70’s wiring and a ‘3rd off 2nd’ bedroom.

 

[^woody^]

The local authority have powers under other legislation to obtain an injunction for building works which have life safety and public safety implications. This is additional to any s36 action and there is no time limit to injunct. It will depend on the situation, not on whether one person on the internet said that he got away with it.

The issue is whether a mortgage company will lend on such a risk, whether a solicitor will advise to purchase such a property and whether a new buyer wants to take the risk and can get home insurance to live there.

 

[garyo]

Aren't there some options for making this comply, such as a fully opening Velux window and chain ladder in a box bolted to the floor? Insulation you might be able to argue complied with the prevailing regulations at the time, etc?

 

[^woody^]

Aren't there some options for making this comply, such as a fully opening Velux window and chain ladder in a box bolted to the floor? Insulation you might be able to argue complied with the prevailing regulations at the time, etc?

Yes there are, but the OP does not want to do that for some reason.

 

[jagillham]

Aren't there some options for making this comply, such as a fully opening Velux window and chain ladder in a box bolted to the floor? Insulation you might be able to argue complied with the prevailing regulations at the time, etc?

Yes there are, but the OP does not want to do that for some reason.

It's not a case of don't want to, but can't. Not as I'd want to lie to them, but not even an option as they know it was around 2012/2013 time anyway.

Spoke to our conveyancing solicitors today. They didn't really have much to say except will have to speak to building control!

Gave them a call, as expected really. Headlines being:

- Probably can regularise the RSJ's on the basis of the engineer calculations and inspection. May or may not need to drill some holes to see the beams.
- No chance of regularising the loft room. Would need to meet all the regs at the time. With the stairs on the first floor exiting into open plan ground floor we are talking building corridors or 1st floor means of escape plus sprinklers. Plus then all the other bits such as insulation levels, ventilation, stair pitch etc etc.... it would basically be starting again.

So, we're in limbo really. The loft cannot be realistically regularised & building control confirmed verbally they'd not enforce anything. Nice enough chap at the office, probably spoke for nearly 30 mins. They still want to come out, but I'm not sure what the point is really. They may sign off 3 steels, but the 2 from the previous owners still won't be, and same for the loft.

Solicitors advised they've almost never been able to obtain a indemnity policy following council notification.

All very frustrating. Still presume it was our previous "buyers", and for absolutely no reason. There was no dispute with them, no haggle, and we never hid anything from them. They've made life harder for us, probably will end up costing us money, and so no gain at all for them.

 

[Leofric]

You knew the loft 'conversion' couldn't comply with bldg. regs due to the protected escape route issue but you went ahead with it anyway, what do you expect anybody to say !