Power Sharing In NI collapses again.

[vinty]

Perhaps some in Ireland see it as reinstating what has always been. Is having a British heritage (rather than an Irish identity) all that important?

It never ceases to amaze me when the Scots make a load of fuss using their own brand of bigotry.

Maybe it is because SF's definition of Irish identity is sectarian and anti British, what is needed is redefinition of Irish identity of who is Irish and who isn't.

 

[vinty]

Really?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43067088
The UK government have already committed to an Irish Language Act.

So now I have shown you some media items that appear to support SF position.
Perhaps you, or Vinty, can do the same but with media that appears to support DUP?

The media items you quote don't really support SF's position ,the government may or may not have committed to an Irish language act however the government has not committed to stand alone ILA which gives protection to the Irish language only ,contrary to what you believe the DUP did offer to support legislation which protected the Irish language but this had to be part of a wider act that protected the rights of other languages and identities.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

,they said they only wanted to create neutral spaces were everyone would feel comfortable.

Is that so bad that DUP collapse the talks?

The Irish language act envisaged by SF demands that Gaelicisation should apply to the whole population of N.Ireland ,that means no jobs in public services without a qualification in Gaelic,

Rubbish. The proposed Act would provide for both languages, e.g. road signs etc.
Maybe your awareness is gained from DUP politicians.

Incidentally, I do not have any existing bias. I have no Irish connections and my awareness is gained purely from the news media.

 

[transam]

Does anyone else share my suspicion: that DUP are intentionally scuppering the Power Sharing negotiations hoping that direct rule will resort back to Parliament?






No

 

[Notch7]

my awareness is gained purely from the news media

But not with much understanding, it would seem

 

[vinty]

Is that so bad that DUP collapse the talks?


Rubbish. The proposed Act would provide for both languages, e.g. road signs etc.
Maybe your awareness is gained from DUP politicians.

Incidentally, I do not have any existing bias. I have no Irish connections and my awareness is gained purely from the news media.

The DUP have stated that they are ready to go back to work anytime without any preconditions or red lines, SF have issued a list of demands which must be met before they go back to work, that isn't Democracy it is blackmail.
As for your second point I don't know were your get your information from but SF has stated repeatedly that they want a stand alone Irish Language/culture act ,they refuse to countenance the equal status for any other language or national identity in the act.
The DUP has stated they offered to support a language/culture act which protects the rights of all communties equally,
We already have bilingual signage in a lot of Nationalist areas but Sinn Fein wants to extend these into Unionist areas with or without the residents consent, they also want Irish language commissars with legal powers to enforce their proposed act.
SF's ambitions go a lot further than just a few road signs.

 

[transam]

listen up way r bee he lives there so he knows a damn site more then u do on the subject . You can always air your views on saudi or iran mind u they do not amount to a bag of beans either

 

[noseall]

The DUP have stated that they are ready to go back to work anytime without any preconditions or red lines, SF have issued a list of demands which must be met before they go back to work, that isn't Democracy it is blackmail.
As for your second point I don't know were your get your information from but SF has stated repeatedly that they want a stand alone Irish Language/culture act ,they refuse to countenance the equal status for any other language or national identity in the act.
The DUP has stated they offered to support a language/culture act which protects the rights of all communties equally,
We already have bilingual signage in a lot of Nationalist areas but Sinn Fein wants to extend these into Unionist areas with or without the residents consent, they also want Irish language commissars with legal powers to enforce their proposed act.
SF's ambitions go a lot further than just a few road signs.

A bit like our relationship with Wales then. Big deal. I'm sure its not that big an ask especially if it gets both sides back around the table.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

For Years SF and their useful idiots in other parties have campaigned for the removal of any British symbols from private and public spaces on the grounds that Catholics found them intimidating ,they said they only wanted to create neutral spaces were everyone would feel comfortable.
Having achieved their aim of removing the Union flag and the Crown symbol from public services and buildings they are now campaigning to have these neutral spaces Gaelicised with their Irish Language laws ,the people of Ulster regard Gaelic as the Irish equivalent of Sharia law.
The Irish language act envisaged by SF demands that Gaelicisation should apply to the whole population of N.Ireland ,that means no jobs in public services without a qualification in Gaelic, this was the tactic used in the Irish Republic to remove protestants from the Civil service after partition.

SF have issued a list of demands
As for your second point I don't know were your get your information from but SF has stated repeatedly that they want a stand alone Irish Language/culture act ,they refuse to countenance the equal status for any other language or national identity in the act.

Just to prove Vinty's impression of Sinn Fein's Irish Language Act is bunkum.

Dublin TD McDonald said there would be no quotas on Irish speakers for jobs, nor would the language be forced on anyone.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/...iew-and-justice-ministry-change-36608559.html

So what is Sinn Féin looking for?
The specific stumbling block in Northern Ireland surrounds the introduction of an Irish language Act (Acht na Gaeilge) which would give Irish equal status with English.
The party is seeking legislation which would allow for:The use of Irish in courts, in the Assembly and for use by state bodies including the police

• The appointment of an Irish language commissioner
• The establishment of designated Gaelteacht areas in the North
• The right for education through Irish
• Bilingual signage on public buildings and road signage

• http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-language-act-explainer-3851417-Feb2018/

Notice, the proposed Act calls for "allow for", not as Vinty suggested "imposed on"

I think his phraseology, "SF and their useful idiots", not to mention his distortion of the facts, also demonstrates his own bias.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

I have to say Vinty's version aligns with what I picked up from the media.

Still no sign, from you or Vinty, of media reports that contradict my suspicion.

 

[Notch7]

Still no sign, from you or Vinty, of media reports that contradict my suspicion.

Or no sign from you of any media reports that support your suspicion.......

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

How would UK residents feel if we had a polish language act - there are a lot more polish speakers in the UK than Irish speakers in NI.

Not a sensible comparison.
But I appreciate where you are coming from:

The DUP has always opposed an Irish language act, with party leader Arlene Foster previously arguing that there should be a Polish language act instead because more people in Northern Ireland speak Polish than Irish.

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-language-act-explainer-3851417-Feb2018/

But this urban myth has been debunked:

Remember that the number of Northern Ireland residents in 2011 who described themselves as being able to speak Irish was 104,943.

Even if we allow for a generous estimate of 30,000-35,000 people of Polish identity currently living in Northern Ireland, it is simply implausible that the number of people with the ability to speak some Polish would even approach 104,943.

http://www.thejournal.ie/arlene-fos...akers-northern-ireland-facts-3228915-Feb2017/

Notice also the first phrase of the first quote: "The DUP has always opposed an Irish language act,"
This is nonsensical when you compare an Irish Language Act to the current Welsh Language Act (1993)

The Act (Welsh Language Act) achieved three things:

• setting up the Welsh Language Board, answerable to the Secretary of State for Wales, with the duty of promoting the use of Welsh and ensuring compliance with the other provisions.
• giving Welsh speakers the right to speak Welsh in court proceedings.
• obliging all organisations in the public sector providing services to the public in Wales to treat Welsh and English on an equal basis.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Language_Act_1993

I maintain that the DUP's position is untenable, especially as the other partis support the Irish Language Act.
If it were to be put to the Assembly (if it ever reconvenes) it would be passed with a handsome majority.

There is other support for the Irish language:

On 13 June 2005, the EU foreign ministers unanimously decided to make Irish an official language of the European Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_the_Irish_language

 

[vinty]

Still no sign, from you or Vinty, of media reports that contradict my suspicion.

This is getting boring, don't you ever read your own links they confirm what I have already posted.
In the link you have posted Gerry Adams is quoted as saying that there can be no return to the Stormont assembly without a STAND ALONE (I have capitalised the letters in case you missed them) Irish language act, the clue is in the word stand alone.
Your links also confirm what I posted about state bodies , the Irish language and the formation of 'Gaelteachts' i.e. Irish speaking areas,they also want millions pumped into Irish language schools,their ultimate ambition is turn Ulster into a pseudo historical '''Gaelic' theme park complete with Irish speaking leprechauns no doubt.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

In the link you have posted Gerry Adams is quoted as saying that there can be no return to the Stormont assembly without a STAND ALONE (I have capitalised the letters in case you missed them) Irish language act, the clue is in the word stand alone.

I see no reference whatsoever in my links to Gerry Adams. Perhaps you can explain just where this reference is.
The Welsh Language Act was a stand alone act. We do not need to capitalise the letters, the phrase has little meaning other than it is not wrapped up with other legislation.

Your links also confirm what I posted about state bodies , the Irish language and the formation of 'Gaelteachts' i.e. Irish speaking areas,

This is just a generic term for areas that speak Irish, as they also exist in RoI. It does not mean that Irish is imposed on all that live/work/visit there.
"The number of native Irish-speakers in Gaeltacht areas of the Republic of Ireland"

they also want millions pumped into Irish language schools,

Rubbish! There is no mention of this anywhere. In fact:

There were no costings to accompany the Dcal consultation.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/02/news/irish-language-act-content-and-cost-1150668/
However, I recognise it costs money, as it does in Wales, but those speaking Welsh have increased by 20% since 1993.
In the island of Ireland, it is a slightly different scenario because Irish is already recognised in RoI (as well as EU).

their ultimate ambition is turn Ulster into a pseudo historical '''Gaelic' theme park complete with Irish speaking leprechauns no doubt.

Your biased opinion.

The DUP are alone in resisting the introduction of an Irish Language Act

Outside of unionism there's a broad consensus that the north should have an Irish language act to protect, preserve and promote Ireland's indigenous tongue and counter centuries of linguistic suppression.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/02/news/irish-language-act-content-and-cost-1150668/

The St Andrews agreement recognised the need for the Act, and agreed the scope, which coincides with Sinn Feins demands.:

Since the 2006 St Andrews Agreement included a pledge to introduce an Irish language act, there have been three separate consultations on legislation, the last of which was conducted by the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure (Dcal) in early 2015.

It is this consultation document, launched by the then minister Caral Ní Chuilín, that Sinn Féin says "forms the basis for discussions" during the current negotiations at Stormont.
Among other things, the consultation proposed Irish be deemed an 'official' language, that an independent language commissioner be appointed, and that the use of Irish be permitted during court proceedings and in the assembly.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/10/02/news/irish-language-act-content-and-cost-1150668/

 

[motorbiking]

What is the relationship to SF voters and Irish speakers?
Have a google - ahhh... now we are getting somewhere.. Is this really about language or politics?

On balance - we also have a leader who p**** up loads of tax payer funds getting people to heat empty sheds for 50k per year.

I imagine this is partly why they have all fallen out.