I suppose it is only human nature to look after a vested interest?
Very respectfully meant of course.
Problem in Oil Pipe To Tank.
- Thread starter boozercruiser
- Start date
I suppose it is only human nature to look after a vested interest?
Very respectfully meant of course.
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The problem with freezing condense drains is specific to GAS boilers. Ther is nothing on a condensing oil boiler to cut it off in the event of a frozen or blocked condense drain. If installed correctly, all that will happen with your oil boiler is that the trap will leak all over your floor.
It seems your boiler has had a hard time since its original poor installation, with incorrect electrical installation, overtightened nozzles, and from your claim that you cannot turn off the hot water, it sounds as though the timer has not been installed correctly.
It is most unusual that the fuel pump cannot be removed from the burner as it is only held in with two allen screws on the sterling, unless some hamfist has rounded off the screws, which makes life a little more difficult, but not impossible. I think you said your boiler was in the garage, which can cause a little corrosion, but this burner can be split, so that easing oil can easily be applied to the joint.
My best advice to you is to arrange now for a trusted experienced oil service engineer to evaluate your complete system, service and rectify any problems. I apologise for my next comment, but I do lots of work for people like you with nothing to do, and all day to do it. Who watch you like a hawk, and tell you ' the last bloke didn't do it like that'.
I am sufficiently confident in my own ability to do my job, and have no objection to anyone watching me, especially he who pays the piper.
The advent of condensing boilers in our industry was probably not the most inspired legislation, and yes, they are more service intensive for precious little gain. The Worcester is not the most accessible of appliances, but that is life.
I wish you luck with your boiler, and hope that this winter's experiences will help you look at your situation from a total perspective.
It seems your boiler has had a hard time since its original poor installation, with incorrect electrical installation, overtightened nozzles, and from your claim that you cannot turn off the hot water, it sounds as though the timer has not been installed correctly.
It is most unusual that the fuel pump cannot be removed from the burner as it is only held in with two allen screws on the sterling, unless some hamfist has rounded off the screws, which makes life a little more difficult, but not impossible. I think you said your boiler was in the garage, which can cause a little corrosion, but this burner can be split, so that easing oil can easily be applied to the joint.
My best advice to you is to arrange now for a trusted experienced oil service engineer to evaluate your complete system, service and rectify any problems. I apologise for my next comment, but I do lots of work for people like you with nothing to do, and all day to do it. Who watch you like a hawk, and tell you ' the last bloke didn't do it like that'.
I am sufficiently confident in my own ability to do my job, and have no objection to anyone watching me, especially he who pays the piper.
The advent of condensing boilers in our industry was probably not the most inspired legislation, and yes, they are more service intensive for precious little gain. The Worcester is not the most accessible of appliances, but that is life.
I wish you luck with your boiler, and hope that this winter's experiences will help you look at your situation from a total perspective.
Thank you for your very informative input to my post, and it sounds like you've more or got everything spot on in your appraisal, except of course in my case.......
"people like you with nothing to do, and all day to do it. Who watch you like a hawk, and tell you ' the last bloke didn't do it like that'".
Actually by and large I keep myself pretty busy and lead a very interesting life with lots and lots of interests. Apart from offering the guy tea or coffee and going out into the garage to see what all the banging was about....I left him to it.
I won't take offence though....you mean well I am sure!
You know when you say about the timer. The fact is that we never use the timer at all. Hot Water is either clicked to ON or OFF independently using the Worcester Timer I had fitted at installation.
Overnight for instance we leave the Timer at the boiler with the Heating ON and the Water to OFF. I have a Wireless controller for the Heating and when we go to bed I click the target temperature to either 10 or 12 degrees overnight and left on MANUAL setting.
When we wake up around 7.00AM I click the temperature up to 21 degrees from the Wireless controler which I keep by the bedside. Then we get up around 7.30 with the Bungalow warmed up a bit.
AND water is hot enough for at least one of us to have a shower using a big head thermostatic.
If I don't put the Hot Water ON at all though...it will start to cool off during the second shower.
The fact is that unless I need to run a bath there is normally enough really HOT water available for dishes etc. even if the Hot Water is turned off for days, BUT the heating on.
The only time we can control the Hot Water is possibly during the summer when the heating is off totally, and then we manually click the button to put the water ON or OFF as and when required.
In my E. Mail to Worcester customer service I have mentioned this problem...so perhaps they will react to it.
Thank you for your " I wish you luck with your boiler " message.
I think that I am going to need it
I thought that you guyd would be interested in the reply I got from Worcester:-
1st February 2011
Dear Mr Thain,
Thank you for your correspondence, please allow me to share with you what I have investigated so far.
Our engineer Robert found after investigation there was an issue with the fuel pump and during the replacement process he found the pump was completely seized to the burner. Whilst trying to remove this item some damage was caused to the casting of the whole burner which would have been unable to be repaired. Thus the new burner was ordered and a re visit was booked in for the following day. Having read your original communication I can understand your frustration, but having investigated this I can understand why his actions were so, there was no option but to order the full unit at our cost.
Our engineers only work on our appliances and anything outside these parameters, are not our responsibility. I can understand your points regarding this issue but that is our working practice. Our engineers carry out basic checks on oil supplies and if possible may be able to re establish a supply. In your individual case this was not possible. Robert was able to get some fuel into the Tiger Loop but this was not replenished by the supply pipe which itself indicated a supply issue and not as you mention a boiler issue. If you have had an independent OFTEC engineer rectify your supply I would welcome his findings and if necessary take actions based on his findings.
Finally to address your question regarding the timer on this appliance I can assure you the appliance and timer are operating correctly. This function is so as to react to a hot water demand as the appliance is a combi type boiler it needs to heat the water contained within the shell to a reasonable temperature to supply you with hot water on demand.
I apologise for any inconvenience caused with regard to this matter and hope this addresses the issues you have raised.
Yours Sincerely
Craig Hodson
Area Service Manager
BOSCH Thermotechnology Ltd
Cotswold Way
Warndon
Worcester
WR4 9SW
www.bosch-thermotechnology.co.uk
[email protected] (for service related complaints/enquiries)
[email protected] (to request an engineer)
Tel: 0844 892 3000 (contact centre)
1st February 2011
Dear Mr Thain,
Thank you for your correspondence, please allow me to share with you what I have investigated so far.
Our engineer Robert found after investigation there was an issue with the fuel pump and during the replacement process he found the pump was completely seized to the burner. Whilst trying to remove this item some damage was caused to the casting of the whole burner which would have been unable to be repaired. Thus the new burner was ordered and a re visit was booked in for the following day. Having read your original communication I can understand your frustration, but having investigated this I can understand why his actions were so, there was no option but to order the full unit at our cost.
Our engineers only work on our appliances and anything outside these parameters, are not our responsibility. I can understand your points regarding this issue but that is our working practice. Our engineers carry out basic checks on oil supplies and if possible may be able to re establish a supply. In your individual case this was not possible. Robert was able to get some fuel into the Tiger Loop but this was not replenished by the supply pipe which itself indicated a supply issue and not as you mention a boiler issue. If you have had an independent OFTEC engineer rectify your supply I would welcome his findings and if necessary take actions based on his findings.
Finally to address your question regarding the timer on this appliance I can assure you the appliance and timer are operating correctly. This function is so as to react to a hot water demand as the appliance is a combi type boiler it needs to heat the water contained within the shell to a reasonable temperature to supply you with hot water on demand.
I apologise for any inconvenience caused with regard to this matter and hope this addresses the issues you have raised.
Yours Sincerely
Craig Hodson
Area Service Manager
BOSCH Thermotechnology Ltd
Cotswold Way
Warndon
Worcester
WR4 9SW
www.bosch-thermotechnology.co.uk
[email protected] (for service related complaints/enquiries)
[email protected] (to request an engineer)
Tel: 0844 892 3000 (contact centre)
Sponsored Links
Craig Hodson
Area Service Manager........
"Finally to address your question regarding the timer on this appliance I can assure you the appliance and timer are operating correctly. This function is so as to react to a hot water demand as the appliance is a combi type boiler it needs to heat the water contained within the shell to a reasonable temperature to supply you with hot water on demand.
I apologise for any inconvenience caused with regard to this matter and hope this addresses the issues you have raised."
Yours Sincerely
Craig Hodson
Area Service Manager
So then, if I read him right...the Area Service Manager is saying that so long as I am calling for the Heating, then I have to have Hot Water whether I like it or not?
All I know is my Missus and I have just returned from a few days away. The Heating has not been on at all while we where away. The dishes are done...we don't need any Hot Water so I just put the Heating on....what do we get...a tank of Hot Water as well, even though we neither need or want it.
How waste full in both energy and cost.
Can any of you guys tell me if this is a normal happening on other makes of Combi Boilers?
Thanks.
Boozercruiser.
Area Service Manager........
"Finally to address your question regarding the timer on this appliance I can assure you the appliance and timer are operating correctly. This function is so as to react to a hot water demand as the appliance is a combi type boiler it needs to heat the water contained within the shell to a reasonable temperature to supply you with hot water on demand.
I apologise for any inconvenience caused with regard to this matter and hope this addresses the issues you have raised."
Yours Sincerely
Craig Hodson
Area Service Manager
So then, if I read him right...the Area Service Manager is saying that so long as I am calling for the Heating, then I have to have Hot Water whether I like it or not?
All I know is my Missus and I have just returned from a few days away. The Heating has not been on at all while we where away. The dishes are done...we don't need any Hot Water so I just put the Heating on....what do we get...a tank of Hot Water as well, even though we neither need or want it.
How waste full in both energy and cost.
Can any of you guys tell me if this is a normal happening on other makes of Combi Boilers?
Thanks.
Boozercruiser.
Your boiler is a heatslave that stores 10/15 gallons of hot water,principly the diverter directs water into slave tank,once temp satisfied it diverts it to heating system.
If system is cold then hot water takes priority, thats the way they are designed.
You need to take a chill pill and enjoy your retirement, leave it to others to change the world.
If system is cold then hot water takes priority, thats the way they are designed.
You need to take a chill pill and enjoy your retirement, leave it to others to change the world.
Your boiler is a heatslave that stores 10/15 gallons of hot water,principly the diverter directs water into slave tank,once temp satisfied it diverts it to heating system.
If system is cold then hot water takes priority, thats the way they are designed.
You need to take a chill pill and enjoy your retirement, leave it to others to change the world.
Thank you obviously cool Happy Slapper for explaining to me better than the Worcester Service Manager exactly why I have to put up with and pay for the priviladge of heating up 10 to 15 gallons of Hot Water I may not either need or want and then to proceed keeping it hot all day.
And then to be advised " that's the way they are designed".... as if that makes it right then, so take a chill pill and enjoy retirement.
This to me makes the Boiler poorly designed and very waste full of energy and only serves to support the original post about how lousy Condensing Boilers are in various ways.
I mean...do ALL condensing boilers operate this way....please let me and everyone else know.
For your further information the missus and I actually have a very full and interesting life....(just back off holiday) ....some of it is supporting and praising all the good things that go on around us, and some of it is complaining about poor service and goods.
I am chilled right now actually....I rather enjoy trying to make better things that go on either to me or around me.
Think of a dog with a bone......right now my bone is a Worcester Condensing Boiler I have lost faith in brought about by a mixture of.......
Poor Installation.....a couple Poor Engineers (most have been very good) who would be better employed mowing lawns, and Poor Design which includes heating hot water I do not either need or want.
So then Slapper....would YOU chill out if you had the problems we have experienced since installation ...all that and constant hot water I neither need or want!.
Are Condensing Boilers Any Good?....I am not impressed up to now!..
Boiler installed by R.T. Downs
Unit 1
Mold Business Park
Wrexham Road
Mold
CH7 1XP,
OFTEC REGISTERED.
New Worcester 18/25 Condensing Boiler, Replace 2 Radiators, Wireless Thermostat.
£1809.55 for Cost Of Materials
£1574.41 to compete work........Total £3383.96p
on 25th July 2008.
Following call outs to Worcester because the boiler is down......
6th October 2008. "PCB FUSE BLOWS C/H EXTERNAL WIRED FROST SAT WIRED INCORRECTLY. BOTH NEUTRAL AND EARTH LIVE ON DEMAND.
COLD WEATHER. REMOVED CABLE FROM FUSED SPAR. MUST BE WIRED ONTO PCB FROST TERMINAL IN BOILER.
I had to get R.T. Downs back to fix that.
26th May 2009. " NOZZLE HOLDER SPLIT. CAUSED APPLIANCE TO SOOT UP. CLEANED OUT APPLIANCE AND ORDERED A NEW NOZZLE HOLDER FOR TOMORROW. NB. WILO PUMP FITTED TO BOILER 60/80EH NOZZLE FITTED, REPLACED WITH CORRECT NOZZLE 55/80EH. COULD NOT COMPLETE MEASUREMENTS AS PART REQUIRED".
27th May 2009. "RECALL TO FIT NOZZLE HOLDER. HOLDER SPLIT AT NOZZLE BASE, OVERTIGHTENED, REPLACED ITEM, NOZZLE DAMAGED. REPLACED ITEM.PECELL DAMAGED, REPLACED ITEM.NB. CONDENSATE TRAP NOT FITTED TO SYSTEM. PIPED DIRECTLY TO OUTSIDE DRAIN. ELECTRIC CABLE FROM THERMOSTAT TOO SHORT. SHOULD BE HEAT RESISTANT. WILO PUMP FITTED TO APPLIANCE".
7th January 2009 "CUSTOMER REPORTED NO CH/DHW, NO OIL GETTING TO BOILER, BOILER HAS STRONG SPARK SO CHANGED CONTROL BOX AND SOLENOID AS A PRECAUTIONARY MEASURE, CHECKED OIL NOT GETTING TO BOILER DUE TO FREEZING TEMPS. UNABLE TO TAKE READINGS AS BOILER IS NOT WORKING"
8th January 2009. "THE OIL LINE WAS BLOCKED, UNBLOCKED TO BOILER OK ON THE HT/HW.
And on top of that of course is as per my post of last weeks Engineers reports.
It has to be said though that quite a lot of the problems in respect of my 18/25 have been caused either by the original installation or the call out guys.
Like I said...I do worry about the long term situation with my boiler.
When I had it installed I thought...oooohhhh lovely a brand new Worcester Condensing Boiler........no worries now.
How wrong I have been
P.S. I note that one Engineer commented that a WILO pump is installed in the boiler. Can anyone verify if this is the correct pump for this particular boiler? And if it is not...does it matter?
Saturday 29th January 2011
So then, I received the Engineers reports from Worcester this morning. Perhaps you guys can make more sense of it than me?
Friday 21st January. Replaced parts (7-716-100-098) job type CT01-BDWN.
1. Coil solenoid valve
1. Control box satronic
1. Photocell and flange
Replaced the parts above but the oil pump was stuck to the burner and unabel to replce it booked back in with a new burner.
Labour Charge £0.00P
Saturday 22nd January 2011.
1. Burner Sterling 50
Replaced the burner as oil pump was stuck to it. The line was frozen advised customer to get there installer to fix it.
Labour Charge £0.00P
(All above exactly as written....including spelling).
So, after my complaining with the help of knowledge gained here and another 4 days of cold another Engineer came out on...
Tuesday 25ththanuary 2011.....his report.....:-
Air being drawn into line from poor fittings. Repaired and Comp tests.
Gross Efficiency 92.0
Labour Charge £0.00P....................................END OF REPORTS
Reply from Worcester Service Manager......
1st February 2011
Dear ...........,
Thank you for your correspondence, please allow me to share with you what I have investigated so far.
Our engineer Robert found after investigation there was an issue with the fuel pump and during the replacement process he found the pump was completely seized to the burner. Whilst trying to remove this item some damage was caused to the casting of the whole burner which would have been unable to be repaired. Thus the new burner was ordered and a re visit was booked in for the following day. Having read your original communication I can understand your frustration, but having investigated this I can understand why his actions were so, there was no option but to order the full unit at our cost.
Our engineers only work on our appliances and anything outside these parameters, are not our responsibility. I can understand your points regarding this issue but that is our working practice. Our engineers carry out basic checks on oil supplies and if possible may be able to re establish a supply. In your individual case this was not possible. Robert was able to get some fuel into the Tiger Loop but this was not replenished by the supply pipe which itself indicated a supply issue and not as you mention a boiler issue. If you have had an independent OFTEC engineer rectify your supply I would welcome his findings and if necessary take actions based on his findings.
Finally to address your question regarding the timer on this appliance I can assure you the appliance and timer are operating correctly. This function is so as to react to a hot water demand as the appliance is a combi type boiler it needs to heat the water contained within the shell to a reasonable temperature to supply you with hot water on demand.
I apologise for any inconvenience caused with regard to this matter and hope this addresses the issues you have raised.
Yours Sincerely
Craig Hodson
Area Service Manager
Are Condensing Boilers Any Good?....I am not impressed up to now!..
Boiler installed by R.T. Downs
Unit 1
Mold Business Park
Wrexham Road
Mold
CH7 1XP,
OFTEC REGISTERED.
New Worcester 18/25 Condensing Boiler, Replace 2 Radiators, Wireless Thermostat.
£1809.55 for Cost Of Materials
£1574.41 to compete work........Total £3383.96p
on 25th July 2008.
Following call outs to Worcester because the boiler is down......
6th October 2008. "PCB FUSE BLOWS C/H EXTERNAL WIRED FROST SAT WIRED INCORRECTLY. BOTH NEUTRAL AND EARTH LIVE ON DEMAND.
COLD WEATHER. REMOVED CABLE FROM FUSED SPAR. MUST BE WIRED ONTO PCB FROST TERMINAL IN BOILER.
I had to get R.T. Downs back to fix that.
26th May 2009. " NOZZLE HOLDER SPLIT. CAUSED APPLIANCE TO SOOT UP. CLEANED OUT APPLIANCE AND ORDERED A NEW NOZZLE HOLDER FOR TOMORROW. NB. WILO PUMP FITTED TO BOILER 60/80EH NOZZLE FITTED, REPLACED WITH CORRECT NOZZLE 55/80EH. COULD NOT COMPLETE MEASUREMENTS AS PART REQUIRED".
27th May 2009. "RECALL TO FIT NOZZLE HOLDER. HOLDER SPLIT AT NOZZLE BASE, OVERTIGHTENED, REPLACED ITEM, NOZZLE DAMAGED. REPLACED ITEM.PECELL DAMAGED, REPLACED ITEM.NB. CONDENSATE TRAP NOT FITTED TO SYSTEM. PIPED DIRECTLY TO OUTSIDE DRAIN. ELECTRIC CABLE FROM THERMOSTAT TOO SHORT. SHOULD BE HEAT RESISTANT. WILO PUMP FITTED TO APPLIANCE".
7th January 2009 "CUSTOMER REPORTED NO CH/DHW, NO OIL GETTING TO BOILER, BOILER HAS STRONG SPARK SO CHANGED CONTROL BOX AND SOLENOID AS A PRECAUTIONARY MEASURE, CHECKED OIL NOT GETTING TO BOILER DUE TO FREEZING TEMPS. UNABLE TO TAKE READINGS AS BOILER IS NOT WORKING"
8th January 2009. "THE OIL LINE WAS BLOCKED, UNBLOCKED TO BOILER OK ON THE HT/HW.
And on top of that of course is as per my post of last weeks Engineers reports.
It has to be said though that quite a lot of the problems in respect of my 18/25 have been caused either by the original installation or the call out guys.
Like I said...I do worry about the long term situation with my boiler.
When I had it installed I thought...oooohhhh lovely a brand new Worcester Condensing Boiler........no worries now.
How wrong I have been
P.S. I note that one Engineer commented that a WILO pump is installed in the boiler. Can anyone verify if this is the correct pump for this particular boiler? And if it is not...does it matter?
Saturday 29th January 2011
So then, I received the Engineers reports from Worcester this morning. Perhaps you guys can make more sense of it than me?
Friday 21st January. Replaced parts (7-716-100-098) job type CT01-BDWN.
1. Coil solenoid valve
1. Control box satronic
1. Photocell and flange
Replaced the parts above but the oil pump was stuck to the burner and unabel to replce it booked back in with a new burner.
Labour Charge £0.00P
Saturday 22nd January 2011.
1. Burner Sterling 50
Replaced the burner as oil pump was stuck to it. The line was frozen advised customer to get there installer to fix it.
Labour Charge £0.00P
(All above exactly as written....including spelling).
So, after my complaining with the help of knowledge gained here and another 4 days of cold another Engineer came out on...
Tuesday 25ththanuary 2011.....his report.....:-
Air being drawn into line from poor fittings. Repaired and Comp tests.
Gross Efficiency 92.0
Labour Charge £0.00P....................................END OF REPORTS
Reply from Worcester Service Manager......
1st February 2011
Dear ...........,
Thank you for your correspondence, please allow me to share with you what I have investigated so far.
Our engineer Robert found after investigation there was an issue with the fuel pump and during the replacement process he found the pump was completely seized to the burner. Whilst trying to remove this item some damage was caused to the casting of the whole burner which would have been unable to be repaired. Thus the new burner was ordered and a re visit was booked in for the following day. Having read your original communication I can understand your frustration, but having investigated this I can understand why his actions were so, there was no option but to order the full unit at our cost.
Our engineers only work on our appliances and anything outside these parameters, are not our responsibility. I can understand your points regarding this issue but that is our working practice. Our engineers carry out basic checks on oil supplies and if possible may be able to re establish a supply. In your individual case this was not possible. Robert was able to get some fuel into the Tiger Loop but this was not replenished by the supply pipe which itself indicated a supply issue and not as you mention a boiler issue. If you have had an independent OFTEC engineer rectify your supply I would welcome his findings and if necessary take actions based on his findings.
Finally to address your question regarding the timer on this appliance I can assure you the appliance and timer are operating correctly. This function is so as to react to a hot water demand as the appliance is a combi type boiler it needs to heat the water contained within the shell to a reasonable temperature to supply you with hot water on demand.
I apologise for any inconvenience caused with regard to this matter and hope this addresses the issues you have raised.
Yours Sincerely
Craig Hodson
Area Service Manager
londonboy";p="1890660 said:
Of all the posts slating condensing boilers,not one of your problems have anything to do with the condensing side of your boiler, to be able to have stored water ready at the turn of a tap is a plus.
If you really want to see hot water problems, get yerself swopped over to LPG and get a gas combi, then you will complain.
If you really want to see hot water problems, get yerself swopped over to LPG and get a gas combi, then you will complain.
Of all the posts slating condensing boilers,not one of your problems have anything to do with the condensing side of your boiler, to be able to have stored water ready at the turn of a tap is a plus.
If you really want to see hot water problems, get yerself swopped over to LPG and get a gas combi, then you will complain.
Well slapper, I suppose that depends upon ones point of view.......
And I certainly do not agree with yours
However, I will make allowances for someone whose views are obviously formed by a...
vested interest 
–noun
1.
a special interest in an existing system, arrangement, or institution for particular personal reasons.
2.
a special concern or stake in maintaining or influencing a condition, arrangement, or action especially for selfish ends
3
one having a vested interest in something; specifically : a group enjoying benefits from an existing economic or political privilege
No offence meant of course.......ME.......
I confess to having a vested interest in wanting heating system that can be relied on to provide Heat when I want it, and not Hot Water when I do not want it.
Tuesday 8th February 2011
Chilled out Pensioner with a Bone enjoying Central Heating which is actually working at the moment (with help from my Pals at DIYnot Forum) sent the following E. Mail and thought that my pals at DIY not Forum (including slapper!) may or may not have some interest in reading it, and may or may not agree with me (That's Life!).............. to......
Craig Hodgson
Worcester Service Manager
7th February 2011
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your E. Mail which my Wife and I where very pleased to receive. However with respect I would wish to put a point of view which is at odds to yours. From what you say on Roberts first visit ......
"Robert found after investigation there was an issue with the fuel pump and during the replacement process he found the pump was completely seized to the burner. Whilst trying to remove this item some damage was caused to the casting of the whole burner which would have been unable to be repaired. Thus the new burner was ordered and a re visit was booked in for the following day."
So on that premise the Boiler had originally broke down because of the fuel pump which meant that the Boiler was not working at all as the 'Lock Out' button showed. With around minus 8 freezing temperatures outside and no movement from the boiler calling for oil it seems to me very possible that this was a contributory factor in some possible freezing in the oil line and then, as the next Engineer Colin advised me that there had possibly been air in the line.
So all of my troubles this time could POSSIBLY have been caused by the boiler .....and Robert toodled off leaving my wife and I to tough it out for a few days in freezing temperatures and only saved when you thankfully sent Colin out, who obviously knew what he was doing, and he thankfully corrected the problem in the oil line.
Robert could just as easily have done that for us....and should have in my humble opinion. Anything, yes anything rather than just leave us like that with freezing temperatures in the middle of Winter. I felt pig sick as I watched him drive away from our property that day.
Regarding my complaint that my Worcester boiler is supplying hot water all of the time if I am calling for heat even if I do not want it. A poster on the respected DIY NOT Forum explained the situation very well......
"Your boiler is a heatslave that stores 10/15 gallons of hot water,principally the diverter directs water into slave tank,once temp satisfied it diverts it to heating system.
If system is cold then hot water takes priority, that's the way they are designed."
To my way of thinking that is a design fault which to me is very wasteful in both energy and cost. So we have to pay for heating 10 to 15 gallons of water and then keep it hot all day just because the Heating is on...even though I have the Worcester Digital Plug-In Twin Channel 7 Day Programmer fitted which has an OFF setting.... even if we do not want it? This isn't exactly helping to keep CO2 emissions down and saving the Planet now is it?
That's if one believes in that rubbish of course!........ Me? .....it's the waste in high priced oil which we are more concerned about.
To be very honest with you as per my below detailed past Worcester Engineer reports you can see that one way and another we have had nothing but problems with our 18/25 boiler. To my mind this has been a combination of poor original installation, one particularly poor engineer (not Worcesters) sent out by Warmsure, and possibly poor design as per the newspaper article I have included below.
In spite of my 'moans' brought about by many cold and frustrating times since we had the 18/25 boiler installed I can say that your customer service has been very good indeed. When calling for service every person I have spoken to on the telephone has been very helpful and an Engineer has come out pretty fast, and almost every one of them seemed to know what they where doing and cared about the job in hand.
Your good self is included in my praise.
However, if Robert had not gone off and left us without heat or hot water then I would not have gone off and done the following posts to try and get some help....
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=259754&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=260840&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1885303#1885303
You will read from the posts if you do not know by now that my Worcester 18/25 has been a big disappointment and has caused us many times of grief one way and another. At the moment the only thing which has helped us is the fact that we where lucky enough to buy the boiler at a time when Worcester where offering a five year guarantee. To be honest the worry now is that my wife and I cannot have any confidence that our boiler will give us many more years of trouble free service, and with hindsight we would not have purchased a Worcester Boiler, or indeed a condensing boiler as per newspaper article if we could have a choice. But of course, just as we cannot have the type of light bulb we want we are stuck with condensing boilers which as far as I can see are not as good as the previous type.
Right now thank goodness the boiler is working fine. However, it should be as most parts have been replaced! Even so, every morning we fire the boiler up we are nervous as to whether the ruddy thing is going to start....particularly if it is very cold outside...... How ironic!
The fact of the matter right now is that I am stuck with an almost brand new boiler which I have no confidence in, and it is my intention to forward all the contents of this E. Mail to your Director of Service Operations to try and find out what his point of view is in respect of our disappointing overall experience of the past two and a half years.
Before I do that I wonder if you would care to add anything to your previous thoughts on the matter?
In any event, I would respectfully ask you to keep this correspondence on file just in case I run into further problems with the boiler for future reference.
Best Regards
Kenny Thain.
While Martyn Bridges remains with the company, responsibility for servicing lies with Mr Ian Cockett (Director of Service Operations) and primarily the attending engineer’s Area Manager who will now be forwarded your correspondence and asked to reply to your concerns over our engineers’ remit on oil boiler breakdowns.
Boiler installed by R.T. Downs
Unit 1
Mold Business Park
Wrexham Road
Mold
CH7 1XP,
OFTEC REGISTERED.
New Worcester 18/25 Condensing Boiler, Replace 2 Radiators, Wireless Thermostat.
£1809.55 for Cost Of Materials
£1574.41 to compete work........Total £3383.96p
on 25th July 2008.
Following call outs to Worcester because the boiler is down......
6th October 2008. "PCB FUSE BLOWS C/H EXTERNAL WIRED FROST SAT WIRED INCORRECTLY. BOTH NEUTRAL AND EARTH LIVE ON DEMAND.
COLD WEATHER. REMOVED CABLE FROM FUSED SPAR. MUST BE WIRED ONTO PCB FROST TERMINAL IN BOILER.
I had to get R.T. Downs back to fix that.
26th May 2009. " NOZZLE HOLDER SPLIT. CAUSED APPLIANCE TO SOOT UP. CLEANED OUT APPLIANCE AND ORDERED A NEW NOZZLE HOLDER FOR TOMORROW. NB. WILO PUMP FITTED TO BOILER 60/80EH NOZZLE FITTED, REPLACED WITH CORRECT NOZZLE 55/80EH. COULD NOT COMPLETE MEASUREMENTS AS PART REQUIRED".
27th May 2009. "RECALL TO FIT NOZZLE HOLDER. HOLDER SPLIT AT NOZZLE BASE, OVERTIGHTENED, REPLACED ITEM, NOZZLE DAMAGED. REPLACED ITEM.PECELL DAMAGED, REPLACED ITEM.NB. CONDENSATE TRAP NOT FITTED TO SYSTEM. PIPED DIRECTLY TO OUTSIDE DRAIN. ELECTRIC CABLE FROM THERMOSTAT TOO SHORT. SHOULD BE HEAT RESISTANT. WILO PUMP FITTED TO APPLIANCE".
7th January 2009 "CUSTOMER REPORTED NO CH/DHW, NO OIL GETTING TO BOILER, BOILER HAS STRONG SPARK SO CHANGED CONTROL BOX AND SOLENOID AS A PRECAUTIONARY MEASURE, CHECKED OIL NOT GETTING TO BOILER DUE TO FREEZING TEMPS. UNABLE TO TAKE READINGS AS BOILER IS NOT WORKING"
8th January 2009. "THE OIL LINE WAS BLOCKED, UNBLOCKED TO BOILER OK ON THE HT/HW.
And on top of that of course is as per my post of last weeks Engineers reports.
It has to be said though that quite a lot of the problems in respect of my 18/25 have been caused either by the original installation or the call out guys.
Like I said...I do worry about the long term situation with my boiler.
When I had it installed I thought...oooohhhh lovely a brand new Worcester Condensing Boiler........no worries now.
How wrong I have been
P.S. I note that one Engineer commented that a WILO pump is installed in the boiler. Can anyone verify if this is the correct pump for this particular boiler? And if it is not...does it matter?
Saturday 29th January 2011
So then, I received the Engineers reports from Worcester this morning. Perhaps you guys can make more sense of it than me?
Friday 21st January. Replaced parts (7-716-100-098) job type CT01-BDWN.
1. Coil solenoid valve
1. Control box satronic
1. Photocell and flange
Replaced the parts above but the oil pump was stuck to the burner and unabel to replce it booked back in with a new burner.
Labour Charge £0.00P
Saturday 22nd January 2011.
1. Burner Sterling 50
Replaced the burner as oil pump was stuck to it. The line was frozen advised customer to get there installer to fix it.
Labour Charge £0.00P
(All above exactly as written....including spelling).
So, after my complaining with the help of knowledge gained here and another 4 days of cold another Engineer came out on...
Tuesday 25ththanuary 2011.....his report.....:-
Air being drawn into line from poor fittings. Repaired and Comp tests.
Gross Efficiency 92.0
Labour Charge £0.00P....................................END OF REPORTS
I have had endless problems with my Worcester 18/25 Boiler, and you may be interested in my post here..
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewto...&start=0&sid=303bbc17fef3584d2d94d5de348cbb21
Chilled out Pensioner with a Bone enjoying Central Heating which is actually working at the moment (with help from my Pals at DIYnot Forum) sent the following E. Mail and thought that my pals at DIY not Forum (including slapper!) may or may not have some interest in reading it, and may or may not agree with me (That's Life!).............. to......
Craig Hodgson
Worcester Service Manager
7th February 2011
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your E. Mail which my Wife and I where very pleased to receive. However with respect I would wish to put a point of view which is at odds to yours. From what you say on Roberts first visit ......
"Robert found after investigation there was an issue with the fuel pump and during the replacement process he found the pump was completely seized to the burner. Whilst trying to remove this item some damage was caused to the casting of the whole burner which would have been unable to be repaired. Thus the new burner was ordered and a re visit was booked in for the following day."
So on that premise the Boiler had originally broke down because of the fuel pump which meant that the Boiler was not working at all as the 'Lock Out' button showed. With around minus 8 freezing temperatures outside and no movement from the boiler calling for oil it seems to me very possible that this was a contributory factor in some possible freezing in the oil line and then, as the next Engineer Colin advised me that there had possibly been air in the line.
So all of my troubles this time could POSSIBLY have been caused by the boiler .....and Robert toodled off leaving my wife and I to tough it out for a few days in freezing temperatures and only saved when you thankfully sent Colin out, who obviously knew what he was doing, and he thankfully corrected the problem in the oil line.
Robert could just as easily have done that for us....and should have in my humble opinion. Anything, yes anything rather than just leave us like that with freezing temperatures in the middle of Winter. I felt pig sick as I watched him drive away from our property that day.
Regarding my complaint that my Worcester boiler is supplying hot water all of the time if I am calling for heat even if I do not want it. A poster on the respected DIY NOT Forum explained the situation very well......
"Your boiler is a heatslave that stores 10/15 gallons of hot water,principally the diverter directs water into slave tank,once temp satisfied it diverts it to heating system.
If system is cold then hot water takes priority, that's the way they are designed."
To my way of thinking that is a design fault which to me is very wasteful in both energy and cost. So we have to pay for heating 10 to 15 gallons of water and then keep it hot all day just because the Heating is on...even though I have the Worcester Digital Plug-In Twin Channel 7 Day Programmer fitted which has an OFF setting.... even if we do not want it? This isn't exactly helping to keep CO2 emissions down and saving the Planet now is it?
That's if one believes in that rubbish of course!........ Me? .....it's the waste in high priced oil which we are more concerned about.
To be very honest with you as per my below detailed past Worcester Engineer reports you can see that one way and another we have had nothing but problems with our 18/25 boiler. To my mind this has been a combination of poor original installation, one particularly poor engineer (not Worcesters) sent out by Warmsure, and possibly poor design as per the newspaper article I have included below.
In spite of my 'moans' brought about by many cold and frustrating times since we had the 18/25 boiler installed I can say that your customer service has been very good indeed. When calling for service every person I have spoken to on the telephone has been very helpful and an Engineer has come out pretty fast, and almost every one of them seemed to know what they where doing and cared about the job in hand.
Your good self is included in my praise.
However, if Robert had not gone off and left us without heat or hot water then I would not have gone off and done the following posts to try and get some help....
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=259754&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=260840&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1885303#1885303
You will read from the posts if you do not know by now that my Worcester 18/25 has been a big disappointment and has caused us many times of grief one way and another. At the moment the only thing which has helped us is the fact that we where lucky enough to buy the boiler at a time when Worcester where offering a five year guarantee. To be honest the worry now is that my wife and I cannot have any confidence that our boiler will give us many more years of trouble free service, and with hindsight we would not have purchased a Worcester Boiler, or indeed a condensing boiler as per newspaper article if we could have a choice. But of course, just as we cannot have the type of light bulb we want we are stuck with condensing boilers which as far as I can see are not as good as the previous type.
Right now thank goodness the boiler is working fine. However, it should be as most parts have been replaced! Even so, every morning we fire the boiler up we are nervous as to whether the ruddy thing is going to start....particularly if it is very cold outside...... How ironic!
The fact of the matter right now is that I am stuck with an almost brand new boiler which I have no confidence in, and it is my intention to forward all the contents of this E. Mail to your Director of Service Operations to try and find out what his point of view is in respect of our disappointing overall experience of the past two and a half years.
Before I do that I wonder if you would care to add anything to your previous thoughts on the matter?
In any event, I would respectfully ask you to keep this correspondence on file just in case I run into further problems with the boiler for future reference.
Best Regards
Kenny Thain.
While Martyn Bridges remains with the company, responsibility for servicing lies with Mr Ian Cockett (Director of Service Operations) and primarily the attending engineer’s Area Manager who will now be forwarded your correspondence and asked to reply to your concerns over our engineers’ remit on oil boiler breakdowns.
Boiler installed by R.T. Downs
Unit 1
Mold Business Park
Wrexham Road
Mold
CH7 1XP,
OFTEC REGISTERED.
New Worcester 18/25 Condensing Boiler, Replace 2 Radiators, Wireless Thermostat.
£1809.55 for Cost Of Materials
£1574.41 to compete work........Total £3383.96p
on 25th July 2008.
Following call outs to Worcester because the boiler is down......
6th October 2008. "PCB FUSE BLOWS C/H EXTERNAL WIRED FROST SAT WIRED INCORRECTLY. BOTH NEUTRAL AND EARTH LIVE ON DEMAND.
COLD WEATHER. REMOVED CABLE FROM FUSED SPAR. MUST BE WIRED ONTO PCB FROST TERMINAL IN BOILER.
I had to get R.T. Downs back to fix that.
26th May 2009. " NOZZLE HOLDER SPLIT. CAUSED APPLIANCE TO SOOT UP. CLEANED OUT APPLIANCE AND ORDERED A NEW NOZZLE HOLDER FOR TOMORROW. NB. WILO PUMP FITTED TO BOILER 60/80EH NOZZLE FITTED, REPLACED WITH CORRECT NOZZLE 55/80EH. COULD NOT COMPLETE MEASUREMENTS AS PART REQUIRED".
27th May 2009. "RECALL TO FIT NOZZLE HOLDER. HOLDER SPLIT AT NOZZLE BASE, OVERTIGHTENED, REPLACED ITEM, NOZZLE DAMAGED. REPLACED ITEM.PECELL DAMAGED, REPLACED ITEM.NB. CONDENSATE TRAP NOT FITTED TO SYSTEM. PIPED DIRECTLY TO OUTSIDE DRAIN. ELECTRIC CABLE FROM THERMOSTAT TOO SHORT. SHOULD BE HEAT RESISTANT. WILO PUMP FITTED TO APPLIANCE".
7th January 2009 "CUSTOMER REPORTED NO CH/DHW, NO OIL GETTING TO BOILER, BOILER HAS STRONG SPARK SO CHANGED CONTROL BOX AND SOLENOID AS A PRECAUTIONARY MEASURE, CHECKED OIL NOT GETTING TO BOILER DUE TO FREEZING TEMPS. UNABLE TO TAKE READINGS AS BOILER IS NOT WORKING"
8th January 2009. "THE OIL LINE WAS BLOCKED, UNBLOCKED TO BOILER OK ON THE HT/HW.
And on top of that of course is as per my post of last weeks Engineers reports.
It has to be said though that quite a lot of the problems in respect of my 18/25 have been caused either by the original installation or the call out guys.
Like I said...I do worry about the long term situation with my boiler.
When I had it installed I thought...oooohhhh lovely a brand new Worcester Condensing Boiler........no worries now.
How wrong I have been
P.S. I note that one Engineer commented that a WILO pump is installed in the boiler. Can anyone verify if this is the correct pump for this particular boiler? And if it is not...does it matter?
Saturday 29th January 2011
So then, I received the Engineers reports from Worcester this morning. Perhaps you guys can make more sense of it than me?
Friday 21st January. Replaced parts (7-716-100-098) job type CT01-BDWN.
1. Coil solenoid valve
1. Control box satronic
1. Photocell and flange
Replaced the parts above but the oil pump was stuck to the burner and unabel to replce it booked back in with a new burner.
Labour Charge £0.00P
Saturday 22nd January 2011.
1. Burner Sterling 50
Replaced the burner as oil pump was stuck to it. The line was frozen advised customer to get there installer to fix it.
Labour Charge £0.00P
(All above exactly as written....including spelling).
So, after my complaining with the help of knowledge gained here and another 4 days of cold another Engineer came out on...
Tuesday 25ththanuary 2011.....his report.....:-
Air being drawn into line from poor fittings. Repaired and Comp tests.
Gross Efficiency 92.0
Labour Charge £0.00P....................................END OF REPORTS
I have had endless problems with my Worcester 18/25 Boiler, and you may be interested in my post here..
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewto...&start=0&sid=303bbc17fef3584d2d94d5de348cbb21
Hello again,
I have not yet heard back from the Area Service Manager in respect of my further comments. In the meantime could someone please help me with information in respect of the supply of Hot Water from my Worcester condencing Boiler.
As previously mentioned, so long as my boiler is calling for Heat then it automaticaly calls for Hot Water, even if the Hot Water is set to OFF with the on board programmer.
Is this just the way EVERY condensing boiler is designed to work, or is this action just designed into Worcesters Boilers alone?
Ta
Kenny Thain
I have not yet heard back from the Area Service Manager in respect of my further comments. In the meantime could someone please help me with information in respect of the supply of Hot Water from my Worcester condencing Boiler.
As previously mentioned, so long as my boiler is calling for Heat then it automaticaly calls for Hot Water, even if the Hot Water is set to OFF with the on board programmer.
Is this just the way EVERY condensing boiler is designed to work, or is this action just designed into Worcesters Boilers alone?
Ta
Kenny Thain
DIYnot Local
Staff member
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