Problem in Oil Pipe To Tank.

If you fit Worcesters and are an accredited installer they do offer to let you do warranty work on your own kit, once you have gone through some compulsory training.

Where the manufacturer does beat the installers is that with a defect in the boiler (not the case here), they are >96% likely to make a permanent repair on the 1st visit.

And their call is free for the first 5 years.

I think that is excellent value and is worth having........even if people like Boozer try to abuse it and then waste hours of their office time afterwards.

He seems to think that having spent a fortune on him mending a fault that was his own making, they should extend his warranty. Perhaps he would like Worcester to bake him a cake as well?
 
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I think Worcester have given you excellent service.

Contractually they are only liable for any defects in the boiler. That excludes your oil line, tank, oil, pump, taps, radiators and towel rail.

Despite your verbose and rambling emails, and threats to publish their responses on a public forum, they treated you better than they had any need to.

There is a another make which is Worcester's biggest competitor in oil boilers, and I can tell you that you wouldn't have got anywhere sending your emails to them.

The service you received was above and beyond the call of duty for a boiler manufacturer. And for this, you seem to want your diatribe against them to go on for days on this forum.

It is true that a skilled boiler installer/repairer would have been happy to address the entire system in terms of repairs. But they will not give you a 5 yr warranty on an oil boiler.

In contrast to the tone of your post, I think this is an excellent advertisement for Worcester Bosch, a company who do pride themselves on service. NB: Worcester accredited installers have had the 5yrs boiler warranty for a few years now, it is standard.

You know...I just knew that this post was going a little too well with nice people trying to help out..but...you always get one in a forum who rattles the cage!

To answer (well...I just HAVE to, don't I?) ....

Yes, Worcester as a company gave me excellent service....but only after I huffed and puffed a bit when the first engineer piddled about putting various parts in the boiler, including a new burner after bashing 7 kinds of bells out of the original burner with a hammer during TWO visits! :rolleyes:
Then leaving us in the lurch with no heating and hot water telling me "Your Oil line is frozen" (Bit like me and the missus by that stage).

"Despite your verbose and rambling emails, and threats to publish their responses on a public forum"

Insult me by saying that my E. Mails to Worcester where "Verbose and Rambling if you like...I can take it....but get your facts right in respect of "Threats".

I didn't threaten them at all. I simply told them that I had come to this forum for help and advice, which I have received in spades (Up to now) and gave them a 'cut and past' copy of Boilerman2 thoughts in respect of how Worcester deal with a problem like mine, compared to an independant Heating Engineer.

"you seem to want your diatribe against them to go on for days on this forum".

'Diatribe'.....n violently bitter verbal attack. invective. denunciation.

God...did I really come across like that? Please excuse me for carrying on breathing at age 68. :rolleyes:

As far as I am concerned all I have been doing is either replying to the very nice people who helped me here to arrive at a lovely conclusion or just keeping people informed of developments.

AND...I just HAD to reply to your constructive critisism post did I not?

For your further information, my "verbose and rambling diatribe" might...just might help someone else who has a similar problem to mine one day who turns to this forum for help, might it not? :!: ;)

P.S. Further to your rather sarcastic post above...

"He seems to think that having spent a fortune on him mending a fault that was his own making, they should extend his warranty. Perhaps he would like Worcester to bake him a cake as well?"

Can you please explain how the fault was of my making? Ta

The mention of a further 5 year warranty was meant as a JOKE....understand...JOKE :rolleyes:

And Worcester....if you are looking at this post....please bake a cake for your avid supporter simond as well as me....Please. :)
 
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If you fit Worcesters and are an accredited installer they do offer to let you do warranty work on your own kit, once you have gone through some compulsory training.

Where the manufacturer does beat the installers is that with a defect in the boiler (not the case here), they are >96% likely to make a permanent repair on the 1st visit.

And their call is free for the first 5 years.

I think that is excellent value and is worth having........even if people like Boozer try to abuse it and then waste hours of their office time afterwards.

He seems to think that having spent a fortune on him mending a fault that was his own making, they should extend his warranty. Perhaps he would like Worcester to bake him a cake as well?

I for one am pleased that Worcester give a 5year warrenty on the Heatslave.....cos its the biggest pile of inaccessible junk thats ever been made.
 
If you fit Worcesters and are an accredited installer they do offer to let you do warranty work on your own kit, once you have gone through some compulsory training.

Where the manufacturer does beat the installers is that with a defect in the boiler (not the case here), they are >96% likely to make a permanent repair on the 1st visit.

And their call is free for the first 5 years.

I think that is excellent value and is worth having........even if people like Boozer try to abuse it and then waste hours of their office time afterwards.

He seems to think that having spent a fortune on him mending a fault that was his own making, they should extend his warranty. Perhaps he would like Worcester to bake him a cake as well?

I for one am pleased that Worcester give a 5year warrenty on the Heatslave.....cos its the biggest pile of inaccessible junk thats ever been made.

Well, I know I have had my problems with the boiler...even before my 'pipe' fiasco....but what you say seems a little harsh? :)
However,...I am just a know nothing customer...with respect, you I guess are a know everything installer of Worcester boilers! :LOL:

P.S. simond.....I am replying to someone who has kindly shown an interest in my original post....if that is O.K. with you? :)
 
Any oilman on here will stay well away from these steamers,the old Heatslave was twice as good.Good Luck with it anyway.BTW I wont install any more Heatslaves let alone service them.
 
Any oilman on here will stay well away from these steamers,the old Heatslave was twice as good.Good Luck with it anyway.BTW I wont install any more Heatslaves let alone service them.

Well I must admit that with too many incidents to go into here that I have lost confidence in my Heatslave 18/25 boiler. And I do worry about the future a bit once the 5 year Guarantee ends in 2 and a half years time. :( :rolleyes:

And thank you for wishing me good luck with it :D

But almost everyone here has shown me goodwill with trying to help with my turn of events. :)

It is just lovely having our Bungalow here in cold west Wales nice and warm again. :D
 
Any oilman on here will stay well away from these steamers,the old Heatslave was twice as good.Good Luck with it anyway.BTW I wont install any more Heatslaves let alone service them.

In view of your very valuable opinion I dug out my previous Engineer reports which you might find amusing and/or others might find of interest. (except one).

Boiler installed by R.T. Downs, which is a business in Mold on 25th July 2008.

Following call outs to Worcester because the boiler is down......

6th October 2008. "PCB FUSE BLOWS C/H EXTERNAL WIRED FROST SAT WIRED INCORRECTLY. BOTH NEUTRAL AND EARTH LIVE ON DEMAND.
COLD WEATHER. REMOVED CABLE FROM FUSED SPAR. MUST BE WIRED ONTO PCB FROST TERMINAL IN BOILER.

I had to get R.T. Downs back to fix that.

26th May 2009. " NOZZLE HOLDER SPLIT. CAUSED APPLIANCE TO SOOT UP. CLEANED OUT APPLIANCE AND ORDERED A NEW NOZZLE HOLDER FOR TOMORROW. NB. WILO PUMP FITTED TO BOILER 60/80EH NOZZLE FITTED, REPLACED WITH CORRECT NOZZLE 55/80EH. COULD NOT COMPLETE MEASUREMENTS AS PART REQUIRED".

27th May 2009. "RECALL TO FIT NOZZLE HOLDER. HOLDER SPLIT AT NOZZLE BASE, OVERTIGHTENED, REPLACED ITEM, NOZZLE DAMAGED. REPLACED ITEM.PECELL DAMAGED, REPLACED ITEM.NB. CONDENSATE TRAP NOT FITTED TO SYSTEM. PIPED DIRECTLY TO OUTSIDE DRAIN. ELECTRIC CABLE FROM THERMOSTAT TOO SHORT. SHOULD BE HEAT RESISTANT. WILO PUMP FITTED TO APPLIANCE".

7th January 2009 "CUSTOMER REPORTED NO CH/DHW, NO OIL GETTING TO BOILER, BOILER HAS STRONG SPARK SO CHANGED CONTROL BOX AND SOLENOID AS A PRECAUTIONARY MEASURE, CHECKED OIL NOT GETTING TO BOILER DUE TO FREEZING TEMPS. UNABLE TO TAKE READINGS AS BOILER IS NOT WORKING"

8th January 2009. "THE OIL LINE WAS BLOCKED, UNBLOCKED TO BOILER OK ON THE HT/HW.

And on top of that of course is as per my post of last weeks Engineers reports.

It has to be said though that quite a lot of the problems in respect of my 18/25 have been caused either by the original installation or the call out guys.

Like I said...I do worry about the long term situation with my boiler.

When I had it installed I thought...oooohhhh lovely :D a brand new Worcester Condensing Boiler........no worries now.

How wrong I have been :!: :(

P.S. I note that one Engineer commented that a WILO pump is installed in the boiler. Can anyone verify if this is the correct pump for this particular boiler? And if it is not...does it matter?

Ta. :)
 
Whatever you do,the most important thing is to make sure that Boiler is tickety boo and ready for the onslaughts of another cold winter.

Make sure filters are cleaned out,condensate pipe upgraded to 32mm if outside and lagged, even better if it terminates inside.

Any external oil pipes/fittings etc should be lagged to prevent water freezing should there be any in the line.

Top up your oil,before the grabbing suppliers stuff you like they have this winter.

Best of all if you can afford it is to run boiler 24hrs on low temps on room stat .

There are lessons to be learnt,and the summertime is the best time to get organised.
 
Whatever you do,the most important thing is to make sure that Boiler is tickety boo and ready for the onslaughts of another cold winter.

Make sure filters are cleaned out,condensate pipe upgraded to 32mm if outside and lagged, even better if it terminates inside.

Any external oil pipes/fittings etc should be lagged to prevent water freezing should there be any in the line.

Top up your oil,before the grabbing suppliers stuff you like they have this winter.

Best of all if you can afford it is to run boiler 24hrs on low temps on room stat .

There are lessons to be learnt,and the summertime is the best time to get organised.

Thank you for the above valuable tips which I will react to. :)

During this cold weather we have not had the heating on all of the while..left it on around 12 degrees when out though.

We have been leaving the hot water on all the while though on the assumption that when temps drop below freezing as the hot water in the store cools down every now and again the boiler will click in and keep the oil moving.

At least this to my mind will serve to pull a little oil through now and again.

Any winter holidays we will leave thermostat in living room, with the doors to every room left open, on 12 degs. minimum and hot water on which I hope will be enough. :)

P.S. We only had the boiler serviced by Worcester in August 2010. I see the engineer has said he changed filter and nozzle.
 
Did your central heating break down in the big freeze? Here's why...
By MICHAEL HANLON
Last updated at 10:25 AM on 29th December 2010
Comments (90)
Add to My Stories

In cold weather, the pipe that takes waste water from the back of the condensing boiler - which isn’t there in a normal boiler - freezes solid, shutting down the system.
Five years ago, New Labour heralded them as the modern, clean and green way to heat your house. As a result, today there are already eight million ‘condensing boilers’ in homes across Britain. In fact, since 2005 it is illegal to fit any other kind.
At the time, John Prescott claimed they would massively reduce your carbon footprint and slash your fuel bills. As a result, every year some 1.2 million old-style ‘dirty’ boilers are scrapped in Britain and replaced by this wondrous new variety.
However, the recent cold snap has revealed a major problem with them. Tens of thousands of people found themselves shivering as their shiny new boilers cut out without warning.
British Gas is understood to have had 60,000 call-outs in Yorkshire alone. And the cost to call out a plumber? It can be between £200 to £300 on a bank holiday. And don’t forget about VAT.
‘We’ve had double the number of call-outs as in the same period last year,’ says Charlie Mullins, MD of Pimlico Plumbers in London, the country’s largest ­independent plumbing company.
‘It is a massive problem. Some customers were ready to move out because their condensing boilers broke. If I had a choice, I’d put in a non-condensing boiler every time.’
It’s all the more infuriating because the problem causing these breakdowns is so simple. In cold weather, the pipe that takes waste water from the back of the condensing boiler - which isn’t there in a normal boiler - freezes solid, shutting down the system and in many cases causing permanent damage.
But this problem is just one of many that have plagued this boiler design since they became popular in the Nineties. Many plumbers consider them to be little more than a multi-billion-pound con-trick.
In a regular boiler, the hot gases produced when the ­methane fuel is burned heat water for your ­radiators, dishwasher, taps and so on. But about 25 per cent of the heat vents out of the exhaust pipe in the form of hot steam and CO2.
In a condensing boiler, a condenser claws back much of the lost heat because as steam condenses into water, it feeds heat back into the system.
This can increase overall efficiency from 75 per cent to as much as 93 per cent, and reduce CO2 emissions - and your bills - by a commensurate amount. That, anyway, is the theory boiler-makers and ­politicians want you to believe.
In 2005, the then-deputy PM John Prescott drew up a masterplan to help Britain meet its CO2 emissions targets, as dictated by the 1997 Kyoto Protocol. This involved a new law ordering that all new and replacement boilers fitted to British homes - some 1.4m annually - must from that date be of the condensing type.


A ‘boiler scrappage’ scheme followed in 2008, which offered people £400 towards the cost of a new condensing boiler if they replaced their old one - even if it was in perfect working order. Boiler manufacturers and plumbing and installation firms could hardly believe their luck.
An estimated eight million homes in Britain made the switch, often encouraged by persistent salesmen who produced an impressive-looking audit offering a seductive assessment of how much money you could save by switching to a new, ‘clean’ boiler.
But even ignoring the freezing pipe problem, it is clear that in most cases it makes no economic sense to scrap an old boiler that is still functioning.
For an average home, replacing even a very inefficient old model with the best new boiler on the market will, at most, save a couple of hundred pounds a year in gas bills.
That sounds good until you realise that at £2,000 for one of the better condensing models, a new one will take at least ten years to pay for itself.
And the problem is that these boilers simply do not last anything like ten years.
‘You might get 20 years out of one of the old ones,’ Charlie Mullins says, ‘but it is more like three to six years out of one of these new ones. In fact, if it goes wrong after four years, you are better off replacing a condensing boiler altogether because of the ­horrendous cost of the parts.
‘On the basis of efficiency, they certainly do not pay for themselves. It makes no sense to take out a working old boiler and replace it with a condensing one.’

If you have an old boiler, provided it is working properly and is serviced regularly, you are almost certainly better off keeping it until it is beyond economic repair.
That’s not something the enthusiastic salesmen will tell you. They also won’t tell you that those touted increases in efficiency are theoretical, often not matched in reality. These boilers rarely operate at ­maximum efficiency anyway.
Explained simply, the water returning from your radiators back to the boiler has to be below 55c for the condenser to condense the steam in the boiler into water. For most homes using standard radiators, this will probably not be the case - the returning water might be as hot as 65c, especially when the radiators are turned up in cold weather.
One impractical ‘fix’ would be to fit oversized radiators, which can warm the room to the same degree despite being slightly cooler.
Another solution would be to fit the latest radiant heating technologies, using pipes embedded in walls and floors. But fitting these hi-tech systems, which are fairly common on the Continent but rare in Britain, would cost thousands of pounds for most homes.
The problems don’t stop there either. The condensed water vapour produced in the new boilers is slightly acidic (as it contains dissolved nitrogen and sulphur oxides), which inevitably causes corrosion of the delicate boiler components and also leads to breakdowns.
So the message is clear: if you have an old boiler, provided it is working properly and is serviced regularly, you are almost certainly better off keeping it until it is beyond economic repair. Parts will be cheaper, it will be less likely to break down and there is no danger of it stalling on the coldest night of the year.
If you’re worried about your carbon footprint, just remember that the touted efficiency savings are theoretical figures and might not reflect reality. In a well-designed, well-insulated new home that incorporates the ­latest heating technology, a condensing boiler might be more efficient.
But most of us do not live in such homes - we have poor insulation and ageing pipes and radiators. Remember, also, that manufacturing each new boiler has a ‘carbon cost’ in itself that must be ‘paid back’ by the new boiler.
There is no doubt that the great switch to condensing boilers was motivated by the best intentions. But that’s small consolation if you find yourself shivering in a freezing house this winter, wondering when the plumber is going to arriv


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ng-break-big-freeze-Heres-.html#ixzz1CWT9LDtj
 
THis article is very badly written and it implies that condensing boilers are inherently faulty when in reality the problem lays with poor standards of installation in the design, and installation of the condensate removal pipe work which is nothing at all to do with the poor old boiler!!! :rolleyes:
 
Perhaps its closer to the truth than many will admit. It advocates keeping and maintaining the old boiler. Hardly in the interest of the boiler salesmen.
 

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