Problem with Oil boiler not firing first time.

[stupendo]

We have a Jetstreme 4 plus boiler that is very long in the tooth but I am unable to replace due to funds at the moment.

It was serviced the other week as it would not start on the cold morning, it was serviced by my local boiler engineer and this problem seems to have gone away. The engineer did also change the jet (not sure if thats what it is called).

Now the boiler worked fine for a week but it is now refusing to light the first time. The only way I can get it to light is to do the following.

Start the boiler up and wait for it to click, which I presume is it trying to light.
Switch the boiler off at the wall.
Switch the boiler back on at the wall it then normally lights, sometimes I have to keep switching it off and on at the wall.

This is obviously very inconvenient as when the boiler tries to come on by itself and I haven't been in the kitchen to switch it on and off it goes into lockout.

I am struggling to get the engineer back, I have to leave a message on his answerphone and then he rings me back but he does this it appears when he feels like it.

Help!

 

[Burnerman]

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve by switching the boiler on and off at the wall, but presumably the burner allows you to do this a couple of times before going to lockout.
I'm wondering how thoroughly your boiler service was done, and whether you had a flue gas analysis at the same time.
Anyway, If your burner is a Riello 40 type, check that the draught door opens immediately oil pressure is established, and try starting the thing without its aluminium cover on. if it has a balanced flue. If the burner is ok for the rest of the day, and its just the first start that is an issue, the boiler / flue may just need a clean out.
However, if the fault continuously repeats itself, then other things come in to play.
John

 

[stupendo]

Burnerman

thanks for the reply, just to clarify. When the bolier first starts up it never lights, in the kitchen with the boiler is the on/off switch for just the boiler not the heating. If i switch this switch a couple of time the boiler then lights.

Not sure I should be taking covers off the boiler sounds a bit above me and I am not sure which cover you are talking about. Will post a picture when I get home.

 

[Burnerman]

There seems to be a double bit of confusion here....!
Assuming the boiler is electrically connected to its wall switch, all you have to do is to switch the main switch on, ensure that any thermostats are calling for heat and the timer is on, and the burner should start up.
Only if a flame is not established will the red light lock out lamp illuminate on the burner casing, which may be repeated on the boiler control panel.
When the burner is trying to start, there will be a whirring noise for about 8 sec...this is the burner fan blowing fresh air into the flue, called a purge. After these 8 secs or so, the oil is then electrically switched on, and it is lit by an electric spark. If the flame establishes, then everything keeps going. If it does not establish, the red lock out lamp comes on.
John

 

[stupendo]

When the burner is trying to start, there will be a whirring noise for about 8 sec...this is the burner fan blowing fresh air into the flue, called a purge. After these 8 secs or so, the oil is then electrically switched on, and it is lit by an electric spark. If the flame establishes, then everything keeps going. If it does not establish, the red lock out lamp comes on.
John

Hello John,

i am learning alot of things about my boiler today, below is the sequence of events as per your previous message but on my boiler.

1. Burner tries to start.
2. Whirring noise for 8 seconds.
3. Hear a spark.
4. Doesnt light.
5. Switch if off on the wall.
6. Switch it back on.
7. Boiler lights without purging again, if boiler hasnt lit go back to step 5.

Its probably not doing it much good but the wife and kids are getting cold.

 

[Burnerman]

So, if you left it after step 4, and didn't switch it off at the wall, it would go to red light lock out, correct? If it did, the whole unit would shut down until you pressed the red light reset.
I'm wondering if it could be the oil pump solenoid sticking, or maybe the control box, at the moment.
Once it gets going, is it ok for the rest of the day?
Is it a Riello burner?
John

 

[stupendo]

Yes if i do not switch it off it will go to lockout.
No it will not be ok for the rest of the day, the next time it goes off I have to do the same process again.
I dont know what kind of burner it has, is there anyway I can tell?

 

[Burnerman]

OK from the info you've given me, it seems that you have a Perrymatic Jetstreme Mk 3 boiler.
This should be fitted with a Riello R40 G3B burner which is inside a rectangular aluminium box (red or natural alloy colour) fitted at the bottom of the boiler casing.
If you can remove the outer box casing, you will expose the burner.
At the right hand side of it should be a flap that is opened by a hydraulic ram - this must open when the oil pump allows oil to pass to the nozzle to allow air into the burner.
Anyway, I think that you have a fault in either:
1) The wiring or loose connections from the wall switch into the boiler control box - these should be tight. (I'm still unsure about your technique of switching the boiler on and off at the wall to get it to light up).
2) The boiler combustion chamber and flue ways are sooted up
3) The photocell (lurking inside the plastic control box, with the lock out lamp on) is faulty.
4) The motor capacitor (which tells the motor which way to spin) is faulty, and your pulsing with the wall switch kicks it into life.
However, at the moment I suspect (1) or (4) but from this distance its hard to tell. Personally I'd like to start at the motor to see if it starts spinning every time - indicating a capacitor fault.
Your boiler engineer should have checked the pump pressure, and eventually adjusted the air door until his gas analysis read 11% CO2 - I hope he did this!
John

 

[stupendo]

OK from the info you've given me, it seems that you have a Perrymatic Jetstreme Mk 3 boiler.
This should be fitted with a Riello R40 G3B burner which is inside a rectangular aluminium box (red or natural alloy colour) fitted at the bottom of the boiler casing.
If you can remove the outer box casing, you will expose the burner.
At the right hand side of it should be a flap that is opened by a hydraulic ram - this must open when the oil pump allows oil to pass to the nozzle to allow air into the burner.
Anyway, I think that you have a fault in either:
1) The wiring or loose connections from the wall switch into the boiler control box - these should be tight. (I'm still unsure about your technique of switching the boiler on and off at the wall to get it to light up).
2) The boiler combustion chamber and flue ways are sooted up
3) The photocell (lurking inside the plastic control box, with the lock out lamp on) is faulty.
4) The motor capacitor (which tells the motor which way to spin) is faulty, and your pulsing with the wall switch kicks it into life.
However, at the moment I suspect (1) or (4) but from this distance its hard to tell. Personally I'd like to start at the motor to see if it starts spinning every time - indicating a capacitor fault.
Your boiler engineer should have checked the pump pressure, and eventually adjusted the air door until his gas analysis read 11% CO2 - I hope he did this!
John

I think its number 3, I took the plastic cover off tonight and found this.....

Untitled

• stupendo
• 29 Mar 2010
• 1

He is coming out tomorrow afternoon to sort it, what could cause that, could it be the change of burner?[/img]

 

[Burnerman]

That sure doesn't look very pretty, and if it got into that state over a short time then the burner wasn't set up correctly in the first place.
I take it thats not the original burner - it looks like one of the newer Bentone ones.
John

 

[Boilerman2]

Not a very good service then,any decent Engineer would have had a replacement PE Cell with him also from your description of getting the burner to firre from cold it sounds like the burner has been set with too much combustion air, do get the engineer to check with a FGA (if he has one!!) look for about 11.5 - 12.0% CO2

 

[Boilerman2]

Burnerman The Benson Jetstreme 4 was fitted with a Sterling Burner from new, they stopped using Riello when they bought Jetstreme from Perrymatics -Halstead boilers took over from Benson, and now the Jetstreme name is Dead (thank god!)

 

[Burnerman]

Hey thanks for that mate
Is that photocell a Satronic MZ770 then?
John