Putin, arse, elbow

[Vinty]

Given the evidence of war crimes coming out of previously Russian held areas in Ukraine, I have nothing but absolute disdain for anyone shilling for Russia at this point. I can't say fully what I think of them here cos I'd probably cop a ban.

Why do you accuse of others of shilling for Russia, when they are simply pointing the hypocrisy of those gloating over the deaths of others.
To Quote Donald J Trump.
"Our hands aren't clean either"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

 

[albaPhenom]

Why do you accuse of others of shilling for Russia, when they are simply pointing the hypocrisy of those gloating over the deaths of others.
To Quote Donald J Trump.
"Our hands aren't clean either"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_war_crimes

Whataboutism is shilling for Russia.

It’s the equivalent of trying to hand wave what Russia are doing and the blatant war crimes they are committing with “yeah but Iraq”

Not to mention the false equivalency of it.

Im sick listening to them. The two things aren’t equivalent and it’s beyond the point where any reasonable person should give this shilling for Russia the time of day.

Same goes for anyone who peddled the quite frankly ridiculous “Neo-Nazi” line as justification for the invasion.

Those people are the lowest of the low.

 

[ajohn]

shilling for Russia

I don't but don't like war because people get killed especially civilians. Shooting civilians is a war crime. The rest gets plonked under the name of collateral damage. The Donbas war bumped off ~13,000 including ~3,500 civilians. A better ratio in some ways as more fighters. Figures are here and for the current one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

Neither side smell of roses in the Donbas one. In fact one group of several on Ukraine's side were branded as terrorists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitarian_situation_during_the_war_in_Donbas#Abductions_and_torture

Politicians cause the dam things and there doesn't seem to be a solution. There are all sorts of politicians and even leaders of terrorist groups fall into that group.

 

[transam]

This type of caper from the Russian armed forces is nothing new. Par for the course

more atrocities will be found / discovered

on the news they have just reported more mass graves found ?????? In areas vacated by the Russians

 

[albaPhenom]

This type of caper from the Russian armed forces is nothing new. Par for the course

more atrocities will be found / discovered

on the news they have just reported more mass graves found ?????? In areas vacated by the Russians

It’s disgusting.

The Putin Puppets are already hard at work on the internet insinuating that this is the Ukrainians who have murdered their own people.

Reports of Russians going into every household, executing any male over 16 and raping the woman in front of their children.

It’s beyond condemnation.

 

[Notch7]

Whataboutism is shilling for Russia.

It’s the equivalent of trying to hand wave what Russia are doing and the blatant war crimes they are committing with “yeah but Iraq”

Not to mention the false equivalency of it.

Im sick listening to them. The two things aren’t equivalent and it’s beyond the point where any reasonable person should give this shilling for Russia the time of day.

Same goes for anyone who peddled the quite frankly ridiculous “Neo-Nazi” line as justification for the invasion.

Those people are the lowest of the low.

Vinty is a Putin puppet

 

[Justin Passing]

Yep, it has gone on in all big wars, from Greek mythologies onwards
In this one, remember how in the Donbas, Ukranians were represented to the Russians, by the Russians. The Ukraine forces certainly did shell civilian buildings, use cluster bombs, and .... that.

If the Russky generals wanted to fire up their army, they'd "remind" them how disgusting the Ukrs had been.
And they have FORM.

A Polish friend of ours was raped by a squad of Russians, when she was 10. Her brother was a similar age. They raped him, cut his genitals, laughed at him running about then shot him. She said "everyone had the same". It was generally acknowledged, but not something people would talk about in polite western society. She went off to a small West Indian island after the war.

Some of the USA did similar in Indo China. When they'd finished, they put in a hand grenade.

My father was typically silent about his WW2 days in the Middle East, but he said enough we could put 2+2 together.

It's what humans do.

 

[transam]

It’s disgusting.

The Putin Puppets are already hard at work on the internet insinuating that this is the Ukrainians who have murdered their own people.

Reports of Russians going into every household, executing any male over 16 and raping the woman in front of their children.

It’s beyond condemnation.

that is the Russian armed forces for you

the issue now is that atrocities by one side will now result in the other side not taking prisoners
I’ll treatment if captured troops

etc etc

the situation will get worse a lot worse

The Ukrainians will not forgive it

for generations it will be a hatred of russians and Russia

 

[transam]

Mother
Father
And there son bound hand and foot shot in a communial centre

reported on the news just now

executed for allegedly assisting Ukranian troops

 

[ajohn]

It's what humans do.

That's the problem. The other aspect with soldiers is that they are likely to know people who have been killed and injured. When things crop up there seems to be a reluctance to prosecute soldiers. Then comes the war of words.

TBH I think Ukraine is a place where 1 of 2 things were bound to happen at some point for rather a long time now. 1 of them has. I also think the "results" of wars has changed

In WWII there were 384,000 soldiers killed in combat, but a higher civilian death toll (70,000, as opposed to 2,000 in WWI), largely due to German bombing raids during the Blitz: 40,000 civilians died in the seven-month period between September 1940 and May 1941, almost half of them in London.

I'm not surprised that they don't include WWI combat deaths especially what was need for an unconditional surrender.

 

[akist]

In WWII there were 384,000 soldiers killed in combat

Errm, surely you mean millions? Tens of millions.

 

[ajohn]

Errm, surely you mean millions? Tens of millions.

'The numbers I quoted were from a gov web page uk only. True some especially of late these numbers are often lower than they really were and other such as local soldiers may be involved such as Afghanistan. Maybe Kirds in Iraq. Some no idea who they were in Libya.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Errm, surely you mean millions? Tens of millions.

World Wide Deaths of WWII
Battle Deaths 15,000,000
Battle Wounded 25,000,000
Civilian Deaths 45,000,000

World Wide Deaths WWI
Military 9 to 11,000,000
Civilian 6 to 13,000,000

 

[IT Minion]

If anything WW1 would be an outlier, normally far more civilians are killed in wars than soldiers.

 

[ajohn]

Maybe Germany is a better example. From wiki
German military casualties were 5.3 million, including 900,000 men conscripted from outside of Germany's 1937 borders, in Austria and in east-central Europe,
Civilian deaths during the war include air raid deaths, estimates of German civilians killed only by Allied strategic bombing have ranged from around 350,000[6][7] to 500,000

Another

• Civilian bombing deaths (not including refugees) of 436,000 include 350,000 dead, 54,000 died of wounds and 32,000 missing and presumed dead.
• Of the 350,000 civilians listed as dead (not including refugees), 126,000 of the deaths occurred after January 31, 1945.
• Included in the total of 635,000 air raid dead were losses for Germany in 1937 borders which totaled 593,000. 465,000 not including refugees (410,000 civilians, 32,000 foreigners and POW and 23,000 military and Police); and losses of 128,000 refugees on eastern front (127,000 civilians and 1,000 military and Police)
• The Austrian government puts their losses in the air war at 24,000. This figure is included in the schedule above.