Putin, arse, elbow

[ajohn]

There has just been an assessment of the situation on BBC. Ukraine facing over whelming fire power in Donbas. Never caught the blokes name. He was explaining the reasons for Zelenskyy's recent comments also pointing out that we wont have heard the name of the places being captured. He thinks that when Donbas has been captured there will be a cease fire offer which Ukraine wont accept so things will carry on.

Shells, missiles and bombs.

So we still have to wait and see.

A mayor was interviewed. He said his 45,000 people are remaining where they are. Unusual as when seriously threatened people usually move out in large numbers. Some have been interviewed. They hope their soldiers will keep the Russian out but if it looks like they can't........ most leave. Sensible as fighting always happens when the Russians do arrive there. I saw some semi fighting north of Kharkev. Group of soldiers in a village. Looks like a drone arrived. Then shells. They all disapeared into cellars until the shelling stopped. The reporter was surprised by the level of the shock waves even in the cellar. Sort of blast curtain blown in but held.

 

[Justin Passing]

Read about thermobaric munitions if you haven't. Surprisingly they were first dreamed up in WW1. Simple ones are very simple, basically a load of powdered aluminum or similar burns, extends the blast duration, sucks up oxygen from air rather than the explosive's oxidizer. The more clever recent two stage ones are more evil, they have a large kill radius, and do for people in bunkers (cf Bunker busters) more efficiently by blasting them open then sucking at lungs.

 

[ajohn]

very simple, basically a load of powdered aluminum

That was the basis of some incendiary bombs - WWII , I think, not sure about 1. I have read about other types and when they have been used.

Ordinary incendiaries achieved the same sort of result in Dresden. A carefully calculated drop has been mentioned.

Interest in incendiaries. I managed to make a flour bomb when young. never got gunpowder completely right, made some fireworks. Coal dust didn't work out either.

 

[Doug99]

Russian stuff got a reputation for working, when the fancy Nazi engineered tanks etc froze up in WW2, etc. You can drive a truck over a Kalashnikov and it'll (probably) still work. It's worth reading the history, it's an immensly successful product. A lot of much later than ww2 US guns failed at the sight of dirt. There are tales of US grunts in Korea I think it was, using AK's because the US guns failed. Visiting bigwigs were not impressed. The M16 series went through several iterations until they cracked that.

At a short course I did in a strange place, I came across an ex RAF squadron leader who'd flown Vulcans at diplays etc - rippling the wings in the dive. He went incandescent at the suggestion that they'd missed the runway, but of course they pretty much had. They had to drop a stick of bombs at a slight angle to the runway so as not to be 10 metres off to the side. Unfortunately they didn't put it out of action for long. Harriers had to keep dropping their smaller bombs on it. The ground was very hard so the craters weren't big. Should have used Barnes Wallis's Earthquake Bombs!
There are a few Vulcan-drop pictures floating about but I think this refers:

View attachment 270727

It was a Naval led war and the RAF felt a little left out so came up with the very expensive, very resource heavy sortie to drop a single bomb on the runway. Subsequent sorties didn't even manage that.
A few years previously during a Defence Review, the RAF had argued there was no need for Naval Aircraft Carriers as the RAF would be able to provide land based fighters/bombers in any conventional war to support the land forces. Despite the Admirals arguing their case, the carriers were going to be sold off. Obviously the RAF and politicians didn't consider the Argentinians a threat at the time. It was ironic that it was carrier based Navy Harriers which protected the Vulcans when on station over the Falklands.

 

[ajohn]

I suspect aircraft carriers are a liability unless used against an inferior foe.

 

[Justin Passing]

Thermobarics: loads on the net ...

very simple, basically a load of powdered aluminum

That was the basis of some incendiary bombs - WWII , I think, not sure about 1.

No nothing like incendiaries. You may be thinking of Thermite in incendiaries.

The aluminium was the bit designed to make them theromobaric - it surrounds the explosive basically. The "Ordinary" H.E. bit blows up normal style, blasting the metal powder apart. Then the heat from the blast ignites the metal/fuel.

The kill mechanism against living targets is unique and unpleasant. What kills is the pressure wave, and more importantly, the subsequent rarefaction (vacuum), which ruptures the lungs. If the fuel deflagrates (burns fast) but does not detonate, victims will be severely burned and will probably also inhale the burning fuel. Since common Fuel/Air explosives eg ethylene oxide and propylene oxide, are highly toxic, undetonated it would prove just as lethal to personnel caught within the cloud.

You can end up with an efficiency gain of several, over explosive alone, & the small size means you can launch them from anything - drones, rpg launchers, mortars, whatever. The biggest ones overlap the small end of tactical nuclear weapons, power wise.

The next generation I understand even less well - they have a means to do destruction in a way which allows the "fuel" , to penetrate the destructed target - so you kill more people, more thoroughly, smashin.
For bunkers they're particularly effective where the passageways are narrow.

 

[IT Minion]

I suspect aircraft carriers are a liability unless used against an inferior foe.

In modern naval warfare there are ships to protect carriers, Submarines that try to kill carriers and carriers.

 

[ajohn]

Some WWII incendiaries were based on aluminium powder and other ingredients. Fact,

 

[Justin Passing]

Some WWII incendiaries were based on aluminium powder and other ingredients. Fact,

Yes, Thermite etc used since 19thc, + Mg and others,. The discussion was about thermobarics.

 

[ajohn]

thermobarics.

That may be used by all. I'm not sure they create the firestorm effect used on Dresden. There was some footage shown yesterday where the word was used - pass. Didn't look as I would expect. More like some other shots with a flash added. Maybe an air burst something or the other.

The wiki mentions vacuum effects and burst lungs, also toxic chemicals. Plus burns and the pressure wave. A surviver from Dresden mentioned lying on the floor. That must have kept her in the air draft feeding the fire. She noticed people walking out of buildings and just collapsing.

 

[ajohn]

There is a ukrainian female politician in the UK, Fairly attractive but if she had black hair I'd think of broomsticks. Dress, hair and makeup.

She's hoping Boris will send long range rocket launchers. Mobile grad type items that carry a lot and can even fire salvoes. Seems the USA are reluctant or slow to supply. Cluster munitions ?????? not sure. Russia probably screw on what head they need as they did with chemical stuff. Made it very easy to destroy when the stuff was banned - unlike many other country's.

I just watched the daily war update video. He mentions grads and newer versions but not that Russia has been updating the grads. I believe they have also had inertial guidance - semi accurate as well as the more modern satellite control that is very accurate. They also have units not shown in the wiki's russian army kit pages.

Not backing Russia just background info.

It does sound like a couple of towns are now in Russian control in Donbas. Seems they are important ones. Lyman is one. Counter attack planned on another ???

 

[transam]

Report on the news of posdible fractures appearing in the west’s alliance / resolve

2 countries named were the usual suspect(s)

France
And
Germany

No surprise tbh if it occurs it was predictable that they were the 2 loose cannons in standing up to Putin

 

[ajohn]

Report on the news of posdible fractures

Whose news? The Hungry thing isn't resolved. Some pundits are mentioning what each side wins if they do - certain amount of wasteland. Also making it worse as time goes on. Nothing more than an observation really -correct too. Others can be made concerning the effects on other countries and the people that live in them. Alternatives are too late now - some have questioned the wisdom of what has been done.

There are indications that if Hungry wont play ball with the EU the rest of the EU will do it independently.

 

[transam]

Whose news? The Hungry thing isn't resolved. Some pundits are mentioning what each side wins if they do - certain amount of wasteland. Also making it worse as time goes on. Nothing more than an observation really -correct too. Others can be made concerning the effects on other countries and the people that live in them. Alternatives are too late now - some have questioned the wisdom of what has been done.

There are indications that if Hungry wont play ball with the EU the rest of the EU will do it independently.

BBC news

Hungary in the grand scheme of things do not amount to a bag of beans

Orban wants to go to Russia brown nosing Putin he can please his self

He could follow Eddie Dempsey and pose for photos with Russian separatist troops in the Donbas

??

 

[ajohn]

BBC news

Having listened to it several times can't say I noticed. You sure you aren't hearing things? There are pills that may help with that. Also some substances that can cause the problem.